2012 May 23 |
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http://www.theatlanticright.com/2010/06/16/centrists-gopers-dont-want-a-big-tent/
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The Daily Caller reports that ‘several GOP centrists are undecided about whether to donate to Sharron Angle, who told Senate Republicans on Tuesday that she represents a chance to get rid of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.).’

Angle won the Republican Party’s nomination recently. She is a darling of the Tea Party, who calls for the replacement of Medicare and Social Security with “free-market alternatives.” She also ‘favors big cuts in federal spending and endorsed getting rid of the Department of Education and giving more control to state and local governments.’

Although these views are perfectly defensible – even authentically conservative – more moderate members of the GOP feel a little bit queasy about Angle. Sen. Scott Brown – yeah, that Massachusetts Republican who was only to represent his state in the U.S. Senate because the Tea Party supported him – for instance, has already said he “doesn’t plan to get involved in that race.”

It’s never ceases to amaze me that those who always call for a “Big Tent” are seldom willing to put up with people who hold slightly different beliefs. Centrists are in many respects worse than ideological progressives, conservatives and / or libertarians in that regard. They always talk about how they want to be accepted in both parties, how they too should be supported, endorsed and funded, but when a more ideological and idealistic person wins the nomination of their party, they suddenly disappear from the scene and quickly focus on “doing my job here” (as Brown put it).

With all due respect, but if these individuals can’t get themselves to support their own party’s nominee because she’s too libertarian / conservative for their tastes, they shouldn’t complain when conservative activists actively work to oust them in their from office. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Simple.

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  1. Posted by Lee Thomas
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111530
    Lee Thomas I am not sure there is a big tent in the GOP. What we seem to have in America is the GOP believes in a set of ideals and the rest of the country who does not adhere to that set of ideals then migrates to the Democratic party because there are almost no alternatives for them that has any meaningful status. The Democrats are much more big tentish then are the GOP but that is a bit misleading because the GOP has a more narrowly defined set of driving ideals then does the Democrats. Examples would be the GOP is less government. Less taxes. Strong national defense. This encompasses some pretty broad range of ideals in order to accept these tenets as part of your belief system. The idea I am getting across here is that the GOP has a rather wide alley in which their followers can trudge and still stay within the framework of these ideas. Where the alley narrows and the way forward becomes muddled is in the area of Social rights. IE. Abortion, gay rights etc. The true GOP should stay away from these because thats when the party tends to splinter and become perceived as not big tentish.
  2. Posted by Brian
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111532
    Brian There are different types of centrists in the GOP. There are those that really want to turn the GOP into a centrist only party, and kick out everyone who they perceive as "too extreme" -- often on social issues. But there are people like McCain who really are generally conservative, but who are now being called liberals or moderates, having the 'conservative' label stripped off of them, because there's a drive by the movement Conservatives for purism. It often doesn't even make sense. Paleo-cons are now being considered unacceptable and un-conservative, because they don't support free trade, even though they were the -original- conservatives in the party. Someone like Newt Gingrich still considered a conservative because he talks the talk, but he wants the Congress to give tax breaks and incentives for alternative energy development. Palin supported state ownership of oil companies in Alaska. Gingrich and Palin are still conservative by my book, but considering them conservative and considering McCain un-conservative seems like a double standard to me. And how Mitt Romney is trusted as a genuine conservative is beyond me. It seems more like a LOYALTY thing than an ideology thing -- if don't ever talk like you want bipartisan compromise, you're OK.
    • Michael_Merritt
      because there's a drive by the movement Conservatives for purism.
      Also true of the Democrats. E.G Joe Lieberman.
      But there are people like McCain who really are generally conservative, but who are now being called liberals or moderates
      McCain is called a RINO mostly for things like McCain-Feingold, which certainly was problematic. I'm in favor of it being reversed, though I can support some elements (like "I approve this message"). Howeve,r McCain tends to be a pretty steady conservative otherwise.
      but he wants the Congress to give tax breaks and incentives for alternative energy development
      I call Newt forward-thinking (also probably profit-thinking). A lot of conservatives shrug off alternatives as "can't be done," which is a little disappointing because they're usually the ones shouting about needing more innovation. Oil will last a while still, but won't last forever, so something else needs to be developed now while we can still depend on oil. Some people, like Newt, just see that more clearly than others.
      Palin supported state ownership of oil companies in Alaska.
      Evidence? I've listened to her speak about energy, and read her book. She does favor government intrusion into oil company operations, and actually brags about using her position as the top energy administrator in Alaska and as Governor to do strongarm (she'd call it "standing up to") the oil companies, with a fondness that would make many liberals happy. But I've never heard her say she wants state ownership of the companies.
      • Posted by Brian
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #111535
        Brian I think the politically active conservatives would be surprised how many rank-and-file conservatives and Tea Party activists support campaign finance regulation. I don't think campaign finance reform should be a make-or-break issue for conservative ideology. And I think conservatives who want to make it a make-or-break issue are going to alienate a lot of people. In Alaska, the citizens have a right to a share of the profits from the oil companies, which makes the state a primary shareholder. Maybe I overstated it by saying 'ownership'.. but it isn't really a conservative position.
  3. Michael_Merritt I don't agree with her platform on replacing Medicare (might be more amenable to replacing SS), but I think she ought to run. The likes of Harry Reid have certainly overstayed their welcome.
  4. Michael_Merritt
    In Alaska, the citizens have a right to a share of the profits from the oil companies
    Yes, she is pretty open (sort of) about supporting that, too. It makes me wonder if all the people who support her so much just choose to be blissfully ignorant that even she has some socialist tendencies. At least in some cases she supports "spreading the wealth" as much as Barack Obama. It'd be hard to blame her if she were just playing on populism, given the political atmosphere in Alaska. Except that she continues to go with it after stepping down and with nobody to pander to. So the logical conclusion is that she actually believes in these positions. I don't have a problem with her inconsistency. Setting one standard for one area of politics and another for a different area. Being ideologically pure is boring. But I do have a problem with politicians who are inconsistent but also try to pretend they're not. She can't have it both ways.
  5. Posted by Lee Thomas
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111538
    Lee Thomas The GOP right now are trying to purge themselves of the Neocons. Big Government conservatives. The problems with the GOP stem from this area of Big government......aka Bush and prescription drug program for seniors....vs. The smaller government conservatives. The Democrats on the other hand in a knee jerk reaction to Bush/Cheney Big Government and big corporation smoozing have turned to the Progressive element within their own party which is the Democrats version of the Republicans Neocons. Big government, big spending idealogy that got the GOP thrown out of office and riled up a populace of Liberals, conservatives and libertarians to march in the street protesting big government spending that is out of control. Both parties in the last decade have been taken over by their more radical elements in response to each other and now the GOP is going radical in the purist mode with the tea party concept in response not only to the Progressive element but in response to the more liberal elements within its own party. Its actually quite a sight to watch this discord by both parties as they struggle to reinvent themselves due to party purity being redefined faster then they can move to deal with its fallout.
    • Posted by Brian
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #111541
      Brian Neo-conservative doesn't really mean big government conservative, though. It means a conservative who supports free trade and foreign interventionism. Bush supported things like the prescription drug program because he's a moderate -- moderate neo-con, more exactly. Michael Merritt-- Btw, I recently read an essay by Jonah Goldberg on this, where he tries to suggest that neo-conservativers were the same old conservatives that always existed, and that paleo-conservatives are really the 'new' movement, and their policies sound more liberal -- ie, they're against free trade, they support government funding internal improvements,etc. He talks about the conservative movement tracing back to Barry Goldwater and how paleo-con philosophy has nothing to do with Barry Goldwater. But its really a conceit of Goldberg's that he portrays Goldwater as inventing conservativism. While he ran on a platform he suggested was 'philosophically' conservative, the term conservative was used back in the 19th century. At that time, those identified as 'conservatives', where the successors of Whigs -- politicians who wanted the majority power in the legislature rather than the executive branch, wanted to retain indirect elections for the senate and were skeptical of populist movements, and, like paleo-cons were against free trade and supported internal improvements. Teddy Roosevelt was considered a conservative in that tradition, and that Goldberg doesn't understand the real history of conservativism (ie it wasnt invented with Goldwater) explains why he thinks Roosevelt was a radical liberal.
      • Posted by Lee Thomas
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #111546
        Lee Thomas Prior to wiki rewriting what Neocon meant..........the prevailing definition was neoconservatives are generally comfortable with a welfare state; and, while supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes. Prescription drugs. Welfare. Food stamps. Etc...etc. Neocons were at one time Democrats who rebelled against the Progressive Jimmy Carter and joinned with Reagan to form a coalition. Do not be fooled by a wonderful job the left did in redefining Neocon in the antiwar movement. Neocons came alive as a result of Jimmy Carter and moved radically away from liberals to join with Reagan who believed in a big stick and BIG SPENDING. Even though he constantly talked about smaller government he was the president who most expanded the size of government with the comfortable agreement of a democratic senate and house going along gladly. As a moderate GWB used the Veto 12 times in 8 years. He never met a spending bill he didnt like till the last 2 years of his presidency when the democrats came to power. The GOP is still reeling from 8 years of GWB which was hijacked by two wars and so they kept silent as the liberal neocons spent themselves silly and expanded government while the left redefined what Neocon meant as simply a war mongering, baby killer. It is this movement that the GOP is trying to purge from itself. Neocons are in hiding but they are still in the party and they are still trying to hold sway over the party. They would be called moderates today. Just as you suggested of Bush. The reason many people thought Bush was a moderate is because he had all the right words for the conservative right while spending like a drunken sailor to keep the Left confused. GWB did more to harm the GOP then he ever did to help it. The party might never recover from his two wars and spending the nation into oblivion.
        • Posted by Brian
          | Quote | Trackback | Link #111547
          Brian Yes, those were called Reagan Democrats. But neo-con became more of a word used by paleo-cons to distinguish between them and the new movement in the party; for a while, the only people using the word 'neo-con' were paleo-cons, and they were primarily concerned with trade and foreign affairs. The paleo-cons had felt that the neo-cons had taken policies and rhetoric that were useful for fighting the Cold War and tried to integrate them into general conservative philosophy.
        • Posted by Brian
          | Quote | Trackback | Link #111549
          Brian Also I don't think the conservative or liberal view is completely right on GWB. Bush went into office with an agenda to cut government, with things like the partial privatization plan for Social Security. That was cut short because after we went into Iraq, everyone was distracted by the war. Because the country's focus was off domestic issues and liberals would put up a fight on government cuts, it would have been too hard to do. On the other hand, it became very easy to do moderate compromise deals like Medicare Part D, so Bush shifted his attention to those things. So its not that he wanted to grow government, rather than cut it, he just wanted to make a legacy for himself and make it look like he accomplished something in office. That's simply the result of Bush being a politician over believing in any ideology, moderate or conservative, neo-con or paleo-con. The deficits under Bush were also more the result of that lack of action than any new legislation like Medicare Part D or TARP. Even if those things weren't passed, they still would have been high.
          • Posted by Lee Thomas
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #111550
            Lee Thomas I will agree to what you posted. My only contention is that the GOP right now is reeling from years of liberal policies which I would consider medicare part D and massive budget deficits no matter the reason. My point was simply that Progressives got their legs because of the neoconish movement of the GOP. The GOP is trying to purge themselves of the Neoconish views while the Democrats are fully being run by the Progressives right now. Both are fringe in the parties and both are going to have to run their course. There is a purity movement going on in both parties right now and the big tent concept is dead in the GOP because Big Tent means to most people who propose it......Democrat Lite.
          • Posted by Brian
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #111551
            Brian If you're talking about neo-con policies that harmed his Presidency I think primarily the war. Bush could have both cut government and increased some spending at the same time and not run up deficits. That he didn't was because of the war. I don't think the majority of the public really judges Bush by the war, people judge him more by the increased deficits, but the war harmed him indirectly that way. Also, among conservatives, his position on immigration hurt him. But if real, real purist conservatives got into power, I don't see them lasting long either. After all, the purists oppose the welfare state in entirety, so what will they want to do -- abolish Medicare, abolish Social Security, abolish the Dept. of Education, etc? Do you think the public wants that? There'll need to be some level of moderation no matter what, since the only viable agenda is reform, not repeal. And like I pointed out, the Big Tent policy isn't only meaningful for moderates.. you want to be able to have both people against free trade (paleo-cons) and for free trade in the party. You also want to be able to have people with semi-libertarian views in the party, who are more liberal on social issues. The biggest concern of Republicans should be whether your candidates have principles and want to ground their views in conservative philosophy, no matter what those views are.. or whether they're unprincipled (like Bush was) and are concerned more about political deals than anything else.
          • Posted by Lee Thomas
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #111554
            Lee Thomas No I agree that purist are not the way to go but both parties are in that mode right now and I think its a result of reacting to the other party. Centrist is the way to go. Not Moderate. Moderate for both sides means being more like the other party and thats just not going to work for either side. centrist means finding common ground and working from there I believe, but with party purity at a premium I think the divide between the two parties is at an all time high until the parties can cleanse themselves of the fringe purists and find the means to work toward centrism and not moderation. Moderate in my mind simply means giving in to the other side and getting nothing in return. GWB gave the democrats senior prescriptions and he got toasted for it by the Democrats who screamed it was not good enough and by the GOP who were saying what are you doing man??
          • Posted by Brian
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #111555
            Brian I agree, I think thats right from the perspective of the two parties. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with being moderate, the way I think you're using the word -- I'd say I'm more moderate than I am liberal or conservative. But, I understand that the way politics is now, that Republicans have to represent themselves as the conservative party, and Democrats as the liberal party, because thats where each of their bases are. If you're a real moderate in either party, you're sort of forced to compromise your principles, and the party is forced to compromise their principles, and not much is gained in the end, because neither your or your party stand for anything anymore. It's not a good base you can stand on and stand your ground against the opposition. ...but, at the same time, I also think the party system we have now is part of the problem.
  6. Posted by @solkleinsmith
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111544
    @solkleinsmith This is a pretty lazy post. There is a HUGE difference between not actively campaigning for someone, and pushing their kind out of the party. The far right has been pushing moderates out for years and years... these people haven't said anything about these people being too conservative for the party, yet they put up with constant RINO hunting calls. And the difference between Angle and Brown is not anywhere near slight. Your argument makes no sense. You're saying that they have to actively support those who they disagree with inside their party, while not getting the same in return. This is as different as night and day... what is the upside to the moderates? Getting tied to right wingers in exchange for... what exactly?