2012 May 23 |
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http://www.theatlanticright.com/2010/06/07/helen-thomas-and-israel-or-when-is-it-time-to-move-on/
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The remarks Helen Thomas made last week in an interview by Rabbi David Nessnoff, suggesting that the Israeli people move back to Germany, Poland, and other countries, instead of living in Israel, have generated a lot of anger.  While suggesting that Israelis simply up and leave their land is bad enough, the context in which Thomas made her’s is even worse: saying that they are occupiers bent on oppressing the Palestinians.  That alone is disgusting.  The Israelis are not occupiers, they do not want to oppress Palestinians, and any suggestion that this is the case should be expected to be denounced.  I don’t know what she was thinking when she said it, and her apology may have come too little too late, as this kind of thinking is not entirely unexpected from her.  I don’t think Helen Thomas has been known for her moderate views as long as I’ve been alive (almost 24 years).

With that said, I think one of the rationales some of her detractors are using to slam her for the remarks doesn’t make a lot of sense.  Some of the criticisms have invoked the Holocaust, saying that she doesn’t seem to understand what happened to the Jews all those years ago.  Let me say that I have no clue if Helen Thomas fully comprehends what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust.  At best, she seems indifferent to the fact.  Yet,  while the comments superficially claim to want to educate her about that period, a closer reading seems to warrant a different interpretation.

Take the video for example.  After Thomas is finished, up pops a title screen with the statement, “Six million Jews were killed at home…in Germany in Poland.”  Then there is this article in the Jerusalem Post (via Hot Air) that makes similar sentiments:

IN THE 62 years of our existence, we have had seven wars, thousands of terror attacks, buses which have exploded in streets, firing into schools, mortars fired on kindergartens. Yet you wish to exile us back to the inferno, as if nothing happened 65 years ago in Europe, as if our hands have not been stretched out for peace since the establishment of the state?

The two statements I quoted above seem to go beyond simply trying to remind Thomas about what happened during the Holocaust.  They don’t seem to be teaching statements, so much as anti-European sentiments, and more specifically, anti-German, anti-Polish, and anti-Austrian sentiments (read the whole JPost for more on the parts about Austria).  What doesn’t make sense about this line of attack is that Europe is in fact much changed from the fascist-run hellhole the Israelis escaped during the Holocaust.

If you took the quoted comments at face value, you might think Nazi Germany and its satellite states were still in power and running death camps, but that’s not the case. There are few citizens of those countries alive today that actually want to kill Jews.  Sure, there are Neo-Nazis groups and parties in Germany and Austria, but they’re by-and-large a minority (Austria’s parties are stronger), and they will likely always be there in some form and level of popularity, as will groups that profess hate for other ethnicities.  At some point, the Israelis will have to come to terms with the fact that quite apart from being the Europe of World War II, the Europe of today is likely to be quite welcoming to an Israeli.  Yet, at least some of them don’t seem to want to believe that.

Sure, there is a chance that one of these parties could come into power again, but that risk will always be there.  In my opinion, by constantly dwelling on their European past, the Israelis will find it difficult to move forward with any peace process in the Middle East.  That’s because their current cultural attitude of victimization, even 65 years after the fact, will cause them to always take far too much offense at the kinds of statements that people like Helen Thomas made last week.

You might be thinking, “But, the Jihadists!  Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!  How can you ignore the current threats Israel faces?”

I’m not ignoring them.  The threats to Israeli’s existence do current exist; make no mistake about it.  But the threats Israeli faces today are not coming from Germany, Poland, Austria, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.  There is the UN’s uneven focus on the actions of the Israeli government, but I see that in much the same way as the focus the rest of the world gives the United States’ actions.  They may not agree with what my government does, but they’re unlikely to wish me any ill will.  All in all, the average Israeli is not going to find themselves in danger in Europe, and it is unfair to suggest that this remains the case.

Now, I’m not saying that that Israelis must forget about the Holocaust, as it would be a mistake to do that.  I’m not even saying they have to forgive the Europe for what happened – though recognizing that the last two generations of Europeans had nothing to do with it would be nice.  What I am saying is that the Israelis need to move on.  I understand there are still threats out there, so it is understandable that they need to deal with the situation that is in front of them.  However, failure to place the Holocaust in the proper historical context will cripple their ability to move into the future if they don’t let it go, at least to some extent.  Should they take what happened and help the people of the world learn from it?  Of course.  But they must also keep a thought toward building their future, and to do that, they must not let themselves become consumed by the past.

  1. Posted by Cher Horowitz
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111455
    Cher Horowitz How can the Israelis "move on" from the Holocaust without disregarding the death of 6 million Jews? You don't provide any answers, just a blanket statement that they must only using the Holocaust as a learning experience and not become "consumed by the past." Your posting indicates you have little to no understanding of the enormous suffering Jews have suffered as a people, which is probably the byproduct of your 24 years of age. I suggest you make the trip to Auschwitz and reading up on the Holocaust more before you try to wax prophetic on how Jews and Israelis conduct themselves and/or view Helen Thomas' recent PR night mare. Anti-Semitism is alive and well, all over the world and now all over the internet. Try any search engine and you will see that for yourself. Whatever you do, please get a clue.
    • Michael_Merritt
      How can the Israelis "move on" from the Holocaust without disregarding the death of 6 million Jews?
      Moving on does not mean you disregard anything. I quite specifically said that forgetting about it would be a mistake. But after any tragedy, you must find to resolve to move forward as a society. While I would never say it matches the tragedy of the Holocaust, my country lost 3,000 people on 9/11/01. We don't forget what happened. How can we? But, we have gone forward, and not only have we done that, we are rebuilding at Ground Zero, and what will go there will be greater than what the terrorists knocked down. There will be a memorial, but it will also continue to be a place of business. We will go about our lives knowing that no radical person or organization can dampen our resolve. We will always remember, but we don't let what happened to us in the past dictate how we'll live our future.
  2. Posted by Lee Thomas
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111461
    Lee Thomas As long as we have Hamas, the PLO, Hezzbolluah, Iran, Syria, Egpyt, Saudia Arabia and a whole host of other countries and groups all with a vision for Palestine and Israel that does not match reality we will never have peace. As I have stated time and time again. Why is it the USA's responsibility to find peace in Israel? They are big boys and girls. I think given their own devices the Palestinians and the Jews could find peace and resolve their difference. But not with half the world meddling in their every action, criticizing their every move and passing sanctions against everything they do. Think about it for a moment. What would happen if the USA has sanctions passed against it every time we deported an Illegal. Raided the wrong crack house and killed a little boy by accident. Blew up the wrong airliner. Forced Haitians to sink rather then rescue them from the sea. This is the type of scrutiny the world gives Israel and Palestine and when the world stops trying to play traffic cop in Palestine then these two nations might actually resolve their difference and move forward. Together.
    • Posted by Doyle Margot
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #111462
      Doyle Margot a nonexistant point of view, if I've ever read one.. should the US stop intervening, as you suggested, Israel would lose it's biggest, and only true ally. it's not because people get bored or act on principle; it's geopolitical interests in the region that drive such scrutiny, as you put it. as soon as the US withdrew its support, Israel would have to start acting on its own, which very well might lead to an all-out war so what is it you're suggesting, anyway?
      • Posted by Lee Thomas
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #111467
        Lee Thomas I never advocated the US stop being an ally and a supporter of Israel. I said why is it our duty to find a peaceful solution to the Palestinian issue? We are friends and allies with many nations. We do not negotiate THEIR peace treaties for them. I am simply saying why are we trying to negotiate peace for Israel?
        • Posted by Doyle Margot
          | Quote | Trackback | Link #111471
          Doyle Margot because in the past Israel (and Turkey) were stopgap measures for Soviet expansion and recently Israel was a counter against rising hostility towards US in the region they may become a bigger liability in the near future, or not; that doesn't mean we may not need them in the future as for negotiating the peace.. if US continued its support but gave Israel a free hand in its expansion policies, then the US faces pressure, within and without why is there poverty in the world? why are there wars in the world? why are people greedy? why are men pigs? why doesn't my boyfriend love me even when I am fat and bitchy? why why why...
  3. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111463
    Tully Helen Thomas has been a pro-Palestinian anti-Israel Jew-hating bigot for as long as **I've** been alive, which is more than twice as long as you, Michael. Having heard some of her numerous anti-Semitic rants before, when she said "Go back to Poland amd Germany" I heard "Go back to Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen."
    • Michael_Merritt Probably. But this article was less about her comments (and certainly not saying that I want them to abandon Israel), but more of an appeal for the Israelis to work through a healing process, which is necessary after any tragedy. Instead of doing that, some Israelis seems to have developed a Euro-phobia, which doesn't make sense because Europe isn't like it was in WWII. In 20 years or so, the phobia will be completely outdated because the generated that created will all be dead. It will have no reason to exist then, absent a major upswing in anti-semitism.
      • Posted by Doyle Margot
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #111465
        Doyle Margot wrong. what you wrote would be true if anti-semitism were concentrated in one or two generations. look at what brought it to Germany in the first place. not hatred of non-blondes or black eyes, or whatever. it was how they perceived the financial system was being manipulated by a certain group of people, and they extrapolated it to an entire race. none of that sentiment has left Europe, for the US and thus the global financial system is still being controlled by people of the same "persuasion" should they want to hate those people, they can conjure up enough reasons for themselves. and as for hatred in Europe.. with the rise of anti-Islamic sentiment, who's to say it will be limited to one type of long beards?
        • Michael_Merritt
          none of that sentiment has left Europe, for the US and thus the global financial system is still being controlled by people of the same "persuasion" should they want to hate those people, they can conjure up enough reasons for themselves.
          What are you talking about? The Neo-Nazis parties are, for the most part, not strong in Europe (aside from Austria). As I said in the article, that could change, but if the Israelis are constantly looking behind their back at Europe, it won't allow them to move forward effectively. There will always be groups that hate them, but then the Israelis must be vigilant in discouraging their activity, rather than viewing each as an imminent threat. Also, you do realize your own words could be construed as anti-semitic?
          and as for hatred in Europe.. with the rise of anti-Islamic sentiment, who's to say it will be limited to one type of long beards?
          It's always possible, but again, is everyone to live their lives in constant fear of what might happen? We can only be ready to combat actual threats, but we can't muzzle everybody, and it would be totalitarian to do so.
          • Posted by Interested
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #111475
            Interested actually I mostly agree with what Doyle's saying. It didn't take just a generation or two for the hatred of Jews to spread, much of it goes back thousands of years with deep religious tones. It just jelled together in a couple of generations and can be turned back again just as rapidly again. All it takes is a few carefully crafted news cycles to start the ball rolling. I can't blame them at all, especially when much of Europe doesn't stand with her when it comes to the UN. I can see how easy it is for Israel to be highly suspect of Europe's intentions, and feel like their back is against the wall.
  4. Posted by Doyle Margot
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111472
    Doyle Margot wow. my words anti-semitic? read them again. Anti-Islamic sentiment is xenophobia in part. and that may spill over. why do I have to spell it out for you? as for you "telling" Israelis what to do.. why are you posting here replying me and not rallying? I'm sure they would welcome outsiders' opinions on how they should feel, act, and live. "It's always possible, but again, is everyone to live their lives in constant fear of what might happen?" read what I posted above with the "why ..."s
    • Michael_Merritt
      none of that sentiment has left Europe, for the US and thus the global financial system is still being controlled by people of the same "persuasion"
      Are you not saying that the US and the global financial system are controlled by the Jews? That's how I read it... Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say there. If so, I apologize.
      • Posted by Doyle Margot
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #111476
        Doyle Margot it's high praise, and a little-spoken but well-known fact. turning it around as anti-something is manipulative.
        • Michael_Merritt Seems like a bit of conspiracy theory to me rather than praise of any sort, but okay. Hopefully you'll forgive my "wat?" moment, as those kind of sentiments have a history of being used as the rationale to demonize and exterminate the Jewish people.
  5. Posted by Doyle Margot
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111481
    Doyle Margot Precisely, Michael. And I stated them above as the reasons Europeans have used in the past to justify their hatred of Jews. Let's see: -The topic you posted was about Jews being told to go back to Europe. -Your argument was that the hatred Jewish people faced in Europe had ebbed. -I made a counter argument to yours, saying the Europeans have conjured up such and such reasons in the past to justify their hatred of Jews. I added that those reasons still stand for them. -You wrote that my mere listing of those reasons is anti-semitic. Ergo (your reasoning): -If you quoted, say, Bin Laden saying "America is evil because it spreads capitalism in the world", then anyone can say you're an anti-capitalist. -Similarly, if you wrote that Bin Laden wants to kill more Americans, you would be siding with Bin Laden against American people in general. Get a grip.
    • Michael_Merritt The way you wrote what you're calling "what Europeans have conjured up" made it seem as if you were stating it. Though later you called it "high praise," so I still don't know if you actually believe it yourself. And I said that writing that the Jews controlling the U.S./global financial system could be construed as anti-semitic by others, not myself. Some people are more sensitive than others. For me, it's not what you say, but your meaning behind it, or what you mean to do with those words. Probably it's due to an upbringing in a world where "they should be killed" is free speech but "they should be killed on the town green tomorrow" calls for police action.
  6. Posted by Doyle Margot
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111490
    Doyle Margot "wrong. what you wrote would be true if anti-semitism were concentrated in one or two generations. look at what brought it to Germany in the first place. not hatred of non-blondes or black eyes, or whatever. it was how they perceived the financial system was being manipulated by a certain group of people, and they extrapolated it to an entire race. none of that sentiment has left Europe, for the US and thus the global financial system is still being controlled by people of the same "persuasion" should they want to hate those people, they can conjure up enough reasons for themselves. and as for hatred in Europe.. with the rise of anti-Islamic sentiment, who's to say it will be limited to one type of long beards? " this was my post once again: "it was how they perceived the financial system was being manipulated by a certain group of people, and they extrapolated it to an entire race." now, as for a group in control of the financial system, in fact or not.. that is high praise. I wish I belonged to a group as crafty, influential, powerful. besides, what I wrote above was what Adolf said when he spat hatred, not my original pearls of wisdom. hence the words "how they perceived it"
    • Michael_Merritt
      besides, what I wrote above was what Adolf said when he spat hatred, not my original pearls of wisdom. hence the words "how they perceived it"
      I know my history. And I understand that now that you don't think that in a negative way, but as originally written it seemed that way to me. Glad we've finally worked that out. In all, though I think that the Israelis need to be a little less touchy about every statement made toward them, I think you and I are pretty agreeable where Israel stands. You think they should be supported, but perhaps not everything Israel does is praise worthy, given your stance on the flotilla raid. I also agree, even though my particular position on that is different from yours.
  7. Posted by Doyle Margot
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #111497
    Doyle Margot OK, then. And as you succinctly put it in the title "...When Is It Time to Move On?", it is time to move on.