2012 May 22 |
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http://www.theatlanticright.com/2010/03/22/stupak-should-move-to-hollywood-threatening-to-vote-against-obamacare-was-an-act/
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Liz Blaine reports for NewsReal Blog that Democratic Representative Bart Stupak, one of the few pro-life members of his party in Congress, always intended to vote for health care reform, regardless of whether or not it would allow the federal government to fund abortions. See this video shot last year, when he was unaware he was being recorded:

This video proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Stupak was acting when he threatened to vote against Obamacare if it would allow for tax payers’ funded abortions. He took pro-lifers seriously, he said. Well, guess what, he lied.

Instead of getting angry, though, perhaps social conservatives should thank Stupak for making clear that the “there are also pro-life and moderate Democrats”-talking point is little more than a sham.

  1. Posted by Roberta Genini
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110084
    Roberta Genini So Stupak is either dumb...believing the President would really compromise his 100% pro-abortion record with an executive order with real teeth in it ensuring Hyde-type banning of federally funded abortion...or he is simply disingenuous and wants to appear to be a friend of the babies while really ingratiating himself with Obama and taking the pressure off himself. This comment of his,filmed when he was unaware he was being taped, certainly suggests the latter. In any case, Bart Stupak must have been aware that executive orders are superseded by federal law.
  2. Posted by Evil
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110085
    Evil Meh, the language is already as restrictive as possible without losing the *many* pro-choice female democrats - all Stupak held out for was a pathetic face-saving concession that he could show at home. The pro-lifers never had any reason to hedge so much on him anyway, because he couldn't get more restrictions without destroying the legislation, and if you expect that from him, then you are being pretty naive. Also, the public is divided on abortions, so basically you guys didn't give Stupak enough cover. Try again some other time. In the meantime, women will be banned from getting money for the procedure, which will do nothing to stop abortions but will at least make it more difficult and unpleasant for women to have them, which is the only real effects the pro-life agenda will ever have.
  3. Posted by Interested
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110088
    Interested These days I doubt the Dim's can tell their own shams from true concerns.
    • Posted by Evil
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #110092
      Evil So you come up with school-yard nicknames for people you dislike rather than make a convincing case against their agendas. Well there's your problem right there.
      • Posted by Interested
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #110100
        Interested I wasn't aware I needed to come up with convincing case for your amusement. Anyone reading this sham of a bill would realize that outright. Course you'd be hard pressed finding a Dimwit that read it.
  4. Posted by Patrick Glenn
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110094
    Patrick Glenn The ObamaCare fiasco will end being a defining event, one way or the other. On the one hand, it might push the United States past the point of no return, in the worst possible sense. These massive statist projects are very difficult to unwind, etc. On the other hand, the ObamaCare fiasco has also shone even more light on the true faces of Democrats, progressives, the mainstream media, academia. Even before Obama came along, the only way we were going to avert future decline was if the American people underwent a seismic shift in outlook and temperament. Keep in mind that 53 percent of our electorate voted for that fraud, Barack Obama. Obama and the Democrats can do a lot of damage between 2008 and 2010, and beyond, but this corrupt Democrat congress and executive reflect a loss of commitment and awareness that we all take some blame in, to one degree or another.
  5. Posted by Evil
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110096
    Evil "On the other hand, the ObamaCare fiasco has also shone even more light on the true faces of Democrats, progressives, the mainstream media, academia." On the *other* other hand, the fact that a legislation Obama pretty much has had no say in is still dubbed "ObamaCare" shows that the American right has much bigger problems than this super-mega-death-cancer-socialism nazi-bill. Listen to David Frum, who urges your side to, you know, not get so wrapped up in yourselves next time. "Keep in mind that 53 percent of our electorate voted for that fraud, Barack Obama." Yup, and only 6 % of them believe that the stimulus did any good, which is completely wrong but helps your side electorally. So, sometimes, the fickleness of the vox populi helps you, sometimes it hinders you.
  6. Posted by Evil
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110097
    Evil http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/how-republicans-blew-it Some more tips for you. You played a big game, and did not really have enough on your feet to play it. High risk high reward, and things didn't go your way. Terribly sorry, but what happened here is called meritocracy.
    • Posted by Interested
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #110101
      Interested are you aware of what meritocracy means? This was no meritocracy.
  7. Posted by Evil
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110102
    Evil "are you aware of what meritocracy means? This was no meritocracy." Sure it is - you are the kind of person who call dems "dims", and you just lost. Meritocracy.
    • Posted by Interested
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #110104
      Interested LOL, sorry charley. But do tell us in great, explicit detail how and why you feel the bill was a Meritocracy. This should be fun, we'll even take notes, maybe have cake.
  8. Posted by Patrick Glenn
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110120
    Patrick Glenn The other disgusting thing about the Stupak charade is how NARAL and NOW are now pretending to be "incensed" at Obama, blah, blah. My guess is that these press releases were coordinated ahead of time, JournoList style. "Now, don't forget, we're gonna need NARAL and NOW to come out with condemnatory press releases to follow on the heels of the executive order stories . . ." Hey, "progressives," the numbers of voters who are finally seeing just how disgusting and Machiavellian many/most of y'all are is growing quite a bit of late. If or when that number gets high enough, your game is up.
    • Posted by Evil
      | Quote | Trackback | Link #110129
      Evil Big majorities don't last in America, but what happened now was that the base managed to get the careerists in congress do actually do something with the majority. Also, you really have no reason to feel worried about abortions - this bill goes out of its way to keep women from getting money for what is essentially appendectomies (what with fetuses not being children, but humanoid lumps of matter). Stupak could have pushed for more, but there were enough pro-abortion women democrats to keep Pelosi in check.
      • Posted by Patrick Glenn
        | Quote | Trackback | Link #110132
        Patrick Glenn I'm very worried about the entire package - not just taxpayer funding of abortion. The issue with Stupak is that he is either a liar or pathetic - which is worse? As for big majorities, it is true that political coalitions are difficult to hold together for long in a two party, winner-take-all system. But what I was referring to above was a more profound, society-wide general shift in attitudes about the proper roles and responsibilties of government. If (or, I hope for everyone's sake, when) that happens, the relative electoral positions of the Republican and Democrat parties will still seesaw back and forth as always, but that'd be happening in a less statist-friendly society, which is really what has to happen to avoid the malaise.
        • Posted by Evil
          | Quote | Trackback | Link #110133
          Evil "I'm very worried about the entire package - not just taxpayer funding of abortion." Yeah, well, if you invent things that do not exist then you will have plenty impediments to good sleep. What is happening is that some women will get financial aid to sign up on insurance plans that do not bar them from abortions. That is not federal aid for abortions, that is federal aid to achieve the option to have an abortion along with thousands of other medically related treatments, operation, whathaveyou. "But what I was referring to above was a more profound, society-wide general shift in attitudes about the proper roles and responsibilties of government." I see the matter of government as a probabilistic, economic and financial factor that can be encompassed by my faculties - that is, I trust myself to observe where government is needed, and where it is not, and then adjust accordingly. There is a moral dimension to it as well - the potential of government to impede people in their affairs, and the potential of the absence of government to leave real and immoral injustices uncorrected. I do not see any metaphysical aspect to the question of whether or not to force some insurance companies to change their proceedings or forcing people to buy insurance. There is a probability coefficient for unintended consequences and harm befalling people with this changes, but in the American context the repercussions of holding back are also severe. If one goes by a strict, philosophical and metaphysical view of government as an intrinsic problem, then this bill is bad by default. I, however, see government as a fickle but ultimately definable and quantifiable factor that can be allocated rationally and intelligently. Drug stores etc. should be private matters, while health-care is more akin to agriculture - it's a feature of society that cannot be left to itself if systematic suffering, financial and social, is observed. I do not see the idea of widespread cultural degeneration or some tendency towards reliance or self-entitlement to be attributable to be common-sensically attributable to bills such as this recent one. Those problems run deeper and should be addressed by people with sociological education. I am not an environmentalist or a statist for desiring some kind of collective commitment to prevent an emissions-related tragedy of the commons - that is my awareness of economic reality speaking. Same thing regarding my support for this reform - it stems mostly from a desire to go from a woeful situation to a better one. Hedging the ephemeral character of society on whether or not people have to wait until they must go to the ER for health-care seems... Simplistic.
          • Posted by Interested
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110143
            Interested yawn, I suppose the forced systematic suffering, financial and social is better. A forced Economics class would be a whole lot cheaper than this Obamanition
          • Posted by Patrick Glenn
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110147
            Patrick Glenn Evil, what have I "invented" about the health care package? It includes government mandates to purchase private insurance, heavy-handed government measures, etc. The great majority of hard-core "progressives" in Congress voted for the bill because they saw it as an imperfect but viable route to their promised land. Your case-by-case "probabalistic" view (really, tunnel vision) of how government should function would fail to appreciate the broad sweep of government expansionism. As our Founders understood, the natural tendency of all government - even democracy - is to veer toward tyrannical statism. When we allow our constitutional protections to be eroded gradually over time, eventually we no longer live under a constitutional republic.
          • Posted by Evil
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110164
            Evil "As our Founders understood, the natural tendency of all government - even democracy - is to veer toward tyrannical statism." I'm going to do something unprecedented and flat-out dispute the validity of the founding fathers argument. "When we allow our constitutional protections to be eroded gradually over time, eventually we no longer live under a constitutional republic." Good thing that this bill doesn't breach the constitution unlike the systematic abuse of prisoners.
          • Posted by Patrick Glenn
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110194
            Patrick Glenn Say what you want about their 18th century attitudes toward darker-skinned persons, women, etc., but the Founding Fathers had an amazing grasp of the history of government - republics, nations, empires, city states, principalities, and so forth. If you look at the broad sweep of history, you understand that America and, more recently, much of western Europe and few other places have truly been cities on a hill, surrounded by mellinnia of bloodthirsty tyrannies. This bill contributes to the statist expansionary drift in ways far more profound than could ever be precipitated by choosing not to treat as full American citizens or honorable POWs those scumbag terrorists, who use women and children as human shields, and are too cowardly to fight in uniform.
          • Posted by Patrick Glenn
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110148
            Patrick Glenn Because you believe that individual Americans must be forced to take responsibility for all suffering and alleged environmental problems throughout the world, naturally you would mention the tragedy of the commons. But those tragedies usually happen, these days, when government subsidizes a product, makes something "free," or otherwise takes an over-active role as a third party. Yes, it is a tragedy, but the "progressive" solution is yet another massive expansion of the commons (and rent seeking). Brilliant! I'm not suggesting that everything can, or properly should, be privatized, but throwing the U.S. health care system further into the commons will be a real tradegy.
          • Posted by Evil
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110165
            Evil "Because you believe that individual Americans must be forced to take responsibility for all suffering and alleged environmental problems throughout the world" You can read. Try something else, would you, and use some frigging qualifiers in your sentences.
          • Posted by Patrick Glenn
            | Quote | Trackback | Link #110193
            Patrick Glenn I'm not sure what you mean by this response, but I'm going to assume you're accusing me of exagerrating some of your earlier statements. Fair enough, I shouldn't do that. But maybe I was trying to prod you into clarifying just how responsibility you think middle income (and above) Americans have in addressing the suffering of the "Third World," global environmental conditions, etc. When you didn't do that, my ploy failed.
  9. Pingback | Link #110127
    Obamacare Is the Next Roe v. Wade « Internet Buzz [...] Stupak Should Move To Hollywood: Threatening To Vote Against Obamacare Was an Act PoliGazette (blog) – Mar 21st – 18:08 [...]
  10. Posted by keith herbster
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110131
    keith herbster Maybe Bart Stupid Pak can be a ventriliquist after we vote him out of office since he can speak out of both sides of his mouth. Let's let everyone that has an "alarm clock" pay for this! This was a great solution by the DemoRATS, penalize 85% of the population versus 15% of the population on this problem! What's next? Let's change the Ten Commandments to the One Hundred and Ten Commandments! Good grief!
  11. Posted by Jeb
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #110157
    Jeb Stupak held out for as much as he could get on an issue he and his constituents care about (abortion) before signing on to a bill he and his constituents largely support for other reasons. That is what politicians are paid to do. Pretending otherwise is either naive or partisan grandstanding.