2012 May 22 |
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http://www.theatlanticright.com/2010/01/03/on-the-constitutionality-of-health-care-mandates/
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roll-the-diceSenator Orrin Hatch has teamed up with two conservative legal commentators to summarize the battle plan for a Constitutional challenge to the health care plan which Democrats appear posed to cobble together out of differing House and Senate bills. The proposed challenges include one very good argument, and two much less promising avenues.

First, the critics focus on the mandate that all individuals buy health insurance policies as an unprecedented expansion of government power:

First, the Constitution does not give Congress the power to require that Americans purchase health insurance. Congress must be able to point to at least one of its powers listed in the Constitution as the basis of any legislation it passes. None of those powers justifies the individual insurance mandate. Congress’s powers to tax and spend do not apply because the mandate neither taxes nor spends. The only other option is Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce…
Some have argued that Congress may pass any legislation that it believes will serve the “general welfare.” Those words appear in Article I of the Constitution, but they do not create a free-floating power for Congress simply to go forth and legislate well. Rather, the general welfare clause identifies the purpose for which Congress may spend money. The individual mandate tells Americans how they must spend the money Congress has not taken from them and has nothing to do with congressional spending.

This is the ground upon which the Constitutional argument over health care will probably be fought. The critics’ view that the Constitution limits Congress only to its enumerated powers is a view strongly held among many conservatives, and it is likely that four of the justices on the Supreme Court (Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, and Alito) would embrace it. On the other side, the four progressive justices (Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Sotomayor) would be highly unlikely to oppose the signature issue of the current progressive movement.

This would leave the question in the hands of the most doctrinally unpredictable justice, Kennedy. And on a wide range of issues, notably including interstate commerce, Justice Kennedy has been a large part of the apparent wild vacillations in the Court’s recent direction. Which Justice Kennedy would show up that day? The pro-federalism Justice Kennedy who sided with Justice O’Connor in striking down the overreach cited by the critics in Lopez? Or the Justice Kennedy who only a little while later switched sides to grant a stamp of approval to similar federal overreaching in Gonzalez v. Raich? There is simply no way to know, so even this most sound Constitutional challenge to the individual health insurance mandate has probably even odds of success.

But on the substance, the claim is sound. Regulation of interstate commerce does not include the power to compel individuals to spend their money in ways the Congress specifies. Otherwise, why would we need a stimulus bill, since Congress could just pass a law ordering everyone to go to their nearest mall and spend $1000 or else? And those progressives who try to rescue the notion (once you read past their unfortunately routine bile and contempt towards anyone who DARES to disagree with them) by pointing to the enforcement provisions in the health care bill as a use of Congress’ Taxing Power fail to recognize that while the Supreme Court has recognized only one limitation on the Taxing Power, it is precisely that the purpose of the tax must be to raise revenue rather than to punish non-compliance. Such a provision may be just as unconstitutional as overreaching on the interstate commerce clause.

The critics’ second argument is less promising:

A second constitutional defect of the Reid bill passed in the Senate involves the deals he cut to secure the votes of individual senators. Some of those deals do involve spending programs because they waive certain states’ obligation to contribute to the Medicaid program. This selective spending targeted at certain states runs afoul of the general welfare clause. The welfare it serves is instead very specific and has been dubbed “cash for cloture” because it secured the 60 votes the majority needed to end debate and pass this legislation.

Conservative ire about the so-called “Cornhusker Kickback” is legitimate, and has already placed Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson first on a long list of endangered Democrats in electoral vulnerability. But whether it can be challenged on Constitutional grounds seems highly questionable. The fact is that, for better or worse, “earmarks” that favor particular states, localities, or even individual corporations and NGOs (remember ACORN?) are a long-standing part of the Congressional log-rolling process. There does not appear any reason on its face that the “Cornhusker Kickback” would not pass Constitutional muster on the same grounds as any number of thousands of other locality-specific payoffs, aid packages, or projects.

The third ground for Constitutional challenge appears promising, but is less so when viewed in a practical sense:

A third constitutional defect in this ObamaCare legislation is its command that states establish such things as benefit exchanges, which will require state legislation and regulations. This is not a condition for receiving federal funds, which would still leave some kind of choice to the states. No, this legislation requires states to establish these exchanges or says that the Secretary of Health and Human Services will step in and do it for them. It renders states little more than subdivisions of the federal government.

This violates the letter, the spirit, and the interpretation of our federal-state form of government. Some may have come to consider federalism an archaic annoyance, perhaps an amusing topic for law-school seminars but certainly not a substantive rule for structuring government. But in New York v. United States (1992) and Printz v. United States (1997), the Supreme Court struck down two laws on the grounds that the Constitution forbids the federal government from commandeering any branch of state government to administer a federal program. That is, by drafting and by deliberate design, exactly what this legislation would do.

While the critics are correct that the direct mandate on the states to establish regulations specified by Congress would run afoul of the cases mentioned, they overlook how easy it is to simply convert the current direct mandate language into a use of the Spending Clause as leverage to coerce the states into compliance anyway. When the federal government sought to force the states to adopt a 21-year-old minimum drinking age, for example, it simply informed the states that they would forfeit any highway maintenence funds from the federal government if they failed to do so. All the states quickly fell into line with that federal mandate. Using similar means, the federal government coerced states to adopt a 55mph speed limit during the late 1970s and early 1980s. And in South Dakota v. Dole, the Supreme Court approved these coercive uses of the Spending Power.

In this case, the federal government would only need to threaten to withhold Medicare and Medicaid funding from any state that failed to adopt the required insurance exchanges. It seems quite unlikely that any state — even those that might briefly posture in opposition as they did with regards to TARP funding — would actually accept such a price for standing in opposition to health care reform.

Thus, the bottom line comes back to Justice Kennedy and the Interstate Commerce Clause. Roll the dice.

  1. Pingback | Link #108106
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  2. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108150
    Doomed While I am no legal expert. Im not even remotely qualified to speak about the Laws of our lands but the one thing I have been coming to realize for me personally over the last decade. Our Federal government is fast becoming Unconstitutional. At least for me in their massive power grab that has turned the once powerful states into nothing but Welfare Recipients and yes men to the national government. No where can the devastating effects of this be seen more then in California where more and more of the tax money and wealth is leaving the state to fill up the coffers of the US treasury and less and less is being returned to that state leaving her in dire straits. Unintended consequences of a Federal government run amuck. I hope the constitutional battle over this rages for years....prevents the passage of this bill and it goes all the way to the supreme court. God help us if they lose. Because then we will be facing an empowered STATE that can literally tell us how to spend our money.
  3. Posted by Michael
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108151
    Michael FROM ONE OF THE SILENT MAJORITY THE BUGLES OF OPPRESSION AND TYRANNY HAVE BEGUN TO BLOW IN OUR COUNTRY AND IN OUR GOVERNMENT. BECAUSE OF THIS, HISTORY COURSE 101 HAS AGAIN BECOMES MANDATORY. TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN OR FOR OUR GOVERNMENT THE US CITIZENS FREEDOMS AND BIRTHRIGHT ARE DECLARED AND DEFINED IN THE US DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE UNITED STATED PEOPLES BILL OF RIGHTS. THESE DOCUMENTS ARE THE LINE THAT IS DRAWN IN THE SAND. THEY ARE THE SOURCE OF THE UNITED STATES CITIZENS DREAMS, HOPE AND FREEDOMS. NO GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE WHO TOOK THE OATH TO DEFEND FROM WITHOUT AND WITHIN, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE US PEOPLES BILL OF RIGHTS SHALL EVER CROSS THIS LINE BY MAKING OR PASSING LAWS THAT VIOLATE THE MEANING OR THE REQUIREMENTS OF THESES DOCUMENTS. TO THOSE WHO CROSS THIS LINE AND ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE US CITIZENS FREEDOMS THROUGH THE ACT OF SOCIALISM OR SOCIAL ENGINEERING OR BY PASSING LAWS THAT VIOLATE THE MEANING OR THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ABOVE DOCUMENTS; THAN THEIR ACTIONS WILL LEAD OR AMOUNT TO OPPRESSION AND TYRANNY. THEIR ACTIONS WILL BE INTERPRETED AS THAT OF A GANG OF TRAITORS WHO ARE ACTING AGAINST THE US CITIZENS WILL OR WISHES AND MAY OR WILL LEAD TO A CITIZEN REVOLT PLUS OR MINUS CIVIL WAR. THIS COURSE 101 IS REQUIRED FOR THE LEADERSHIP OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WHO PUT THEIR PARITY, THEIR INCUMBENCY AND/OR SPECIAL INTEREST ABOVE THE GRATER GOOD OF ALL OF THE CITIZENS OF THESE UNITED STATES. THE US CITIZENS WHO ARE THE SILENT MAJORITY AND A SLEEPING GIANT HAVE BEGUN TO AWAKE. WHEN AWAKE THEY WILL DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR OUR COUNTRY. THEY WILL MARCH TO THE DRUMS OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM. SO WE SAY TO YOU MISTER OBAMA AND YOU CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS DO NOT PASS ANY LAWS THAT AMOUNTS TO OPPRESSION OR TYRANNY AGAINST ANY UNITED STATES CITIZEN OR GROUP OF CITIZENS. PASS ANY LAWS THAT ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE ABOVE DOCUMENTS. IF YOU DO, THAN YOU HAVE BECOME TRAITORS TO YOUR OATH OF OFFICE AND THUS, ALL THE CITIZENS OF THESE UNITED STATES. IN TIME TRAITORS WILL BE HELD INDIVIDUALLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. SO SAY THE SILENT MAJORITY.
  4. Posted by Michael
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108153
    Michael @Doomed THE UNITED STATES SENIOR CITIZEN SENIORS ARE THE GENERATION THAT FOUGHT WORLD WAR II AND KOREA, THE GENERATION THAT PRODUCES THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAS MADE THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE. THEY ARE THE GENERATION WHO ARE IN THE TWILIGHT YEARS OF THEIR LIVES AND A GENERATION THAT KNOWS: WHEN THE BUGLES OF OPPRESSION BLOW IN OUR COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES CITIZEN WILL FIND AND MARCH TO A NEW DRUMMER AND WILL, IF NECESSARY, DO WHATEVER IS REQUIRED OF THEM TO FORCE CHANGE IN THE US GOVERNMENT. THE HOUSE, THE COURTS AND SENATE IS NOW MADE UP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT THEIR PARTY, THEIR INCUMBENCY AND THEIR PERSONAL INTEREST ABOVE THE GREATER GOOD OF ALL THE US CITIZENS. THESE PEOPLE HAVE BECOME ALIENATED TO AND A LACKEY OF SPECIAL INTEREST. THESE PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT ARE UNDER ESTIMATING THE MAJORITY OF THE US CITIZENRY. THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT WE ARE BECOMING ANGERED AND AROUSED AND AT SOME POINT WILL ACT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY. IF THE DOWN HILL SLIDE TO SOCIALISM OR A DICTATORSHIP CONTINUES, THE US CITIZEN CAN, AS A MINIMUM, VOTE INTO OFFICE INDEPENDENT MINDED CANDIDATES WHO WILL NOT PERMIT THEMSELVES TO BE CONTROLLED BY THE TWO PARTIES LEADERSHIP OR BY ANY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS. WE CITIZENS SHOULD DEMAND THAT OUR GOVERNMENT STOP PASSING THOSE SPECIAL INTEREST LAWS OR BIG BROTHER LAWS THAT ERODE THE INDIVIDUAL STATES RIGHTS AND THE PEOPLES INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS. WE THE SENIORS KNOW THAT IN A FREE SOCIETY THEIR IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD GOVERNMENT WITH OUT VIGILANTES OF THE PEOPLE. WE SENIORS ARE IN THE TWILIGHT YEARS OF OUR LIVES. PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE MADE AWARE THAT WE ARE THE SENTINELS OF OUR COUNTRY AND CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS, FOR WE ARE ALSO THE GENERATION THAT PRODUCES THE WEAPON TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE TAKEN FOR GRANTED TODAY. OVER THE LAST 60 YEARS, WE HAVE SEEN OUR GOVERNMENT BECOME CORRUPTED. WE HAVE SEEN OUR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS AND LIBERTY BECOME DEGRADED. IT IS TIME TO FIGHT TO REESTABLISH AND REGAIN THOSE INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS AND LIBERTY. IT IS TIME TO TAKE A STAND: I TOOK THE OATH; I WAS A SOLDIER ONCE. WE ALL CAN BECOME SOLDIERS AGAIN. THIS TIME IN DEFENSE OF OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN?S BIRTHRIGHT AND THEIR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND LIBERTY. THIS IS A CAUSE WORTH DYING FOR. OUR GENERATION OF SENIORS HAS THE SMARTS AND KNOW-HOW AND CAN LEAD IN THIS ENDEAVOR. TO ALL SENIORS: IT IS TIME TO REMOVE THE CANCER AND CORRUPTION OF THAT LIVING MATTER WHO CALL THEMSELVES DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON D.C.. THE GANG OF TRAITORS OF THE US DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE UNITED STATED PEOPLES BILL OF RIGHTS. SO SAY THIS SENIOR.
  5. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108157
    Tully No where can the devastating effects of this be seen more then in California where more and more of the tax money and wealth is leaving the state to fill up the coffers of the US treasury and less and less is being returned to that state leaving her in dire straits. It pays to notice that most of California's problem is self-made. The state has been driving away its own high-income taxpayers with unsustainably high levels of state spending and bureaucracy and regulation, and high levels of state taxation. Also, the higher the cost of living in a state, the more the "fed ratio" will skew against them regardless -- federal income taxes do not adjust for local cost-of-living. $50K/yr is starvation wages in San Francisco, but solidly middle-class in Mobile, Alabama. Yet federal income/payroll taxes are much the same for both. Also, the higher the cost of doing business in a state due to its internal taxation, the less competitive the state will be in attracting government contract work such as defense spending through competitive bidding. Likewise, the higher the cost of living and internal taxation, the less likely retirees will remain in the state, and the biggest "outflow" items in the fed-to-state direction transfer are Social Security and Medicare spending. Those retiring show a very strong tendency to flow out of high-cost high-tax states and towards lower-cost lower-tax ones. Why you find so many former New Yorkers in Florida. I haven't taken a close look at CA in that regard, but I'd be surprised if the trend isn't there as well, if not as strongly as in cold-winter states such as NY and IL. Had California held state spending to the rate of inflation and population growth over the last decade, it would be running a surplus right now. It didn't.
  6. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108158
    Doomed Tully When the costs of living are exorbitantly high as in California. Those who would ordinarily be exempt from Federal income taxes are forced to pay them. Your 50k analogy in California puts those people in an uneviable position to have to PAY federal income tax in addition to all the other taxes when they are in fact struggling mightly because of all the problems the states have placed on their own citizens due to regulation and legislation. It is the states RIGHT to do all these things but with ever increasing wages in California they are forced to pay ever increasing amounts of their money to the feds in the form of social security, medicare and federal income taxes thus falling farther and farther behind the curve do to the feds appetite for spending at mindboggling rates.
  7. Patrick Glenn Tully, you make several astute points about California's self-made problems. I need to take a look at the "fed ratio," which is an issue I hadn't thought enough about in relation to interstate competitiveness, state budgetary problems, etc. I looked it up on Google with the idea of putting together a quick reading list, but didn''t find much. Is your mention of "fed ratio" shorthand for another longer phrase? I'm particularly interested in the specific issue you mentioned, i.e. that in relatively high cost of living states (typically with high taxes, high service demands), many taxpayers could be at a relative disadvantage compared to taxpayers in lower tax/cost-of-living states. Since about the 1950s, many "public choice" economists have argued that taxpayers tend to choose in which local jurisdictions they want to live based on the mix of tax rates versus services offered. The idea was that, some taxpayers would be willing to pay higher rates for higher levels of service, or vice versa. They "voted with their feet" by moving to those jursidictions that offered their preferred mix of taxes/services, thereby sorting themselves geographically over time, approximating an efficient/optimal distribution. The theory was developed in respect to local jurisdictions (cities, suburbs, counties) but it has also been applied to states. Critics of the theory, many on the left, countered that the sorting was inefficient, inequitable, etc. They argued that the theory really breaks down when describing jursidictions with the weakest tax bases. That, at the bottom of the slope/curve, the jursidiction would be completely disfunctional and were more likely to be that way because taxpayers with resources had left primarily low-income residents behind (e.g. white flight), rather than it be a fair choice. Therefore it was not optimal. These critiques did have some validity, even if those suggesting them couldn't offer a better alternative theory. But one could argue that the theory also breaks down when describing the highest tax/service jurisdictions, especially for states, which unlike many local jurisdictions, do not have exclusionary mechansisms with which to discourage the influx of fiscal liabilities (e.g., low income persons). I suspect that there is a law of diminishing returns for taxpayers in high tax/high service jursidictions, especially states like California. At a certain point, they're still paying the high taxes even as the service levels begin to go in the opposite direction, which contradicts the optimal sorting theory. The point you made about the "fed ratio" could partly explain this "breakdown," among other factors.
  8. Pingback | Link #108160
    It’s All About Justice Kennedy | NewsReal Blog [...] Read the whole thing at PoliGazette. VN:F [1.7.9_1023]please wait...Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast) [...]
  9. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108162
    Tully All of this is getting a long ways from the constitutionality question of the post...so I'll just say this and shut up rather than run this farther off-topic. My bad. Note, Doomed, that it is not the federal government putting those residents in that position. It's their own elected state and local leaders, and their own choice of residence. To a major extent states create their own economic environments, and residents get to vote on that in two ways. One is at the polls, and one is with their feet. As I noted, had California simply held spending to the same per capita level as they began the decade, they'd be billions in surplus right now. But they didn't. They increased spending far above and beyond the increase in actual inflation and population, to the point where even without the recession they'd be in budget trouble right now. And a major part of that is higher-income earners and businesses fleeing that high taxation/regulation burden. (Arizona and Nevada would like to thank California for that...) Patrick, I quote-marked "fed ratio" because it is indeed just verbal shorthand for the ratio between moneys leaving a state in federal taxes and the total funds coming back to the state through federal spending. High cost-of-living states and more prosperous states are always going to experience that, but to a major extent they manufacture the problem for themselves through their own tax structures. When you consider the nature of those federal funds (Social Security and Medicare being such a big chunk of that flow) it's not surprising at all. When someone is no longer tied to that high-paying job in that high-tax high-cost state that produces those high fed-tax OUTflows, they move someplace cheaper, and those fed-funds INflows go with them. There is no inequity in that. Critics of the theory, many mostly on the left, countered that the sorting was inefficient, inequitable, etc. They argued that the theory really breaks down when describing jursidictions with the weakest tax bases. There, fixed. Said critics intentionally conflate the observed economic behavior(s) of free actors with what THEY want to see happen. I would suggest it is extremely difficult to make that argument without asserting highly debateable social value judgements as to what is "fair" and "optimal." The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false front for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken
  10. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108165
    Doomed Tully. I am not an California apologist. I think their misery is self afflicted but by the same token it still does not alter the fact that by the nature of their highly exaggerated wages they pay a disproportionate amount of taxes as opposed to the amount of FED dollars they receive in proportion back to the state. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html This is an eye opener and the entire point of my post is how the US FEDERAL government has continually intruded upon American lives, Usurped the power of the states and taken it for themselves. Now a days our States are nothing but Welfare Recipients of the Federal government who dictate to each state what they will and will not do in order to receive their tax dollar fix. My point is simple. The federal government has far exceeded its mandate given them by the US Constitution and the founding fathers and if we continue on this path there certainly will come a day when the US Government is telling us what to eat, what to drink, what to spend our money on and what we cannot spend it on. That to me is how voracious this US government has become. Its not a democrat or a republicans fault...the beast must feed itself.
  11. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108170
    Tully I get your point, Doomed, and I don't disagree with it. I'm simply saying the inflow/outflow ratio cited is not a good example of it. Note that it is not CALIFORNIA that paid those higher taxes in the first place, but Californians. And they get them back via those federal retirement benefits that they receive even if they don't remain Californians, but become, say, Floridians or Texans. There is no state power being abused or usurped there. CALIFORNIA has no right to those federal retirement-program payroll-tax dollars in the first place, going either direction. Indeed, California gets offsetting increased revenues from their own state high-tax system, which systemn in turn is a major part of what drives those retirees away when they are no longer tied to their jobs. In essence, California time-shifts their state revenues forward by boosting their state taxes. That in turn lowers the amount of federal retirement-benefit money that comes back into their state, as retirees flee to avoid the taxation and higher cost of living. Because they decided to spend faster than they collected, changing population-age demographics guarantees they'll end up on the short end of that particular stick -- but they weighted the stick that way themselves. Now really, I'm shutting up to quit driving this off-topic. Jason's analysis is pretty sound. I can not see anywhere in the Constitution where Congress is allowed to levy a tax on simply breathing under pain of fine and/or incarceration, which is what an individual mandate amounts to. Perhaps they'll try to hook it to the EPA's findings on CO2 as a pollutant, so they can justify fining us all for exhaling.
  12. Patrick Glenn I agree, Jason's analysis is very good. But my totally inexpert feeling about the constutionality questions is that they should not even be a close call, and that they would likely would come to down Justice Kennedy is both worrisome and convoluted. You would need to be a constitutional scholar to predict how Kennedy might rule on these issues and/or to ascertain how the nuances of court precedents in the last several decades could nudge the court in one direction or another. But perhaps that's part of the problem. The legal elites who will weigh on, and/or make, these decisions have spent their lives studying the minutiae of past, especially 20th century, constitutional law opinion/analyes/trends/etc. and are probably not well positioned to see that the constitutional drift could be headed for an iceburg. The court has been gradually sliding in the wrong direction for a long time now, establishing precedents that will be unsustainable in the 21st century context. Those precedents were not necessarily established against the grain of public opinion - indeed, you could argue that they were very much in keeping with the evolution of postwar public demands, national economic and security requirements, etc. If the court deems that the Senate health care bill is constitutional, though, not only would that decision be a travesty of jurisprudence (as my common sense tells me). Ten years from now, a large percentage of the public will look back at the decision as out of step with the changing times (but, of course, it will be easier to see that then as compared to now). And people will say, "How could such an important constitutional matter have been left to the likes of Kennedy, Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Sotomayor?"
  13. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108174
    Jason Arvak Well, having just spent a semester in Constitutional Law, I'll just say that "studying the minutiae of past, especially 20th century, constitutional law" does not grant any magical ability to read Justice Kennedy. Indeed, one of the primary frustrations in trying to get my mind around the Court's direction on federalism was the fact that Justice Kennedy's opinions and standards seem at times to be completely random or, at least, too situational from which to draw any general inferences. As for the role of the Court in interpreting the Constitution being regrettable, I don't see an practical or legitimate alternative. And Constitutional questions are always a "close call". Cases which are not close don't get far in the courts.
  14. Posted by c3
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108177
    c3 try again: One last blow to Tully’s “dead horse”. A nice article here regarding state taxes/programs and the results
  15. Patrick Glenn Jason, there's hope yet that we have constitutional law students like yourself, who are entering the field without having an ultra-expansive "social justice" mission. After I wrote the above comments, I was afraid that it would sound like I was in favor of altering the Court's traditional role, which I'm not. Rather, I see the Court's drift as part of a larger societal drift toward ways of thinking/acting/policymaking that involved making (often necessary, but often counterproductive) constitutional compromises. And now the 21st century is presenting new sets of challenges that are making the (un)constitutional drift both unsustainable and even more dangerous. I think millions of Americans are beginning to sense/realize these dangers, and I hope or pray that society will begin to demand somewhat of a gradual constitutional restoration. However, the Court operates on a slow lag (lifetime appointments), so even if the sociopolitical situation begins to improve, we could be stuck with the outmoded "progressives" for years to come, especially if/when President Obama restocks the Court with progressive replacements. In the meantime, I do feel that the current Court, with unpredictable Kennedy being the swing vote, can be quite "convoluted" in practice, if not in principle. I just believe that Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Sotomayor all have constitutional mindsets that are dangerously misguided. So, we're in a position in which our hopes for preserving a sensible constitutional framework might rest on one quirky individual, Justice Kennedy. There's no way to avoid that without making things worse by trying to "fix" them, but it is convoluted nonetheless. Over time, as the political climate changes, so will the Court, but then we get back to the problem that progressivism has a stark, powerful advantage: once entrenched, it is very difficult to roll back. Isn't it the same with judicial precedent? I also wonder whether the Supreme Court and its legal petitioners are likely to be attuned and/or responsive to the bigger picture trends, as they have to be deeply embedded in past legal analyses, etc, to perform their roles properly. Every so often, American society and poltical economy undergo a profound shift, but the Court is seen as falling behind step. For example, during the late 19th century, the Court tended to be much more protective of private property interests than it was post-FDR, and for awhile it was probably swimming against the tide, in some respects. Now that the tide MUST reverse in the other way, for our own good, it would not surprise me if the Court lags behind the people.
  16. Patrick Glenn c3: I'm not having any luck when I click on the link you provided.
  17. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108186
    Jason Arvak Patrick, Constitutional law is a niche field at best. Leaving aside those issues related to criminal law, the only people who do much work with it after law school are those that get appellate clerkships. And perhaps that might be part of the reason that progressives seem to have a permanent trend in their favor. A recent study showed that, like academia, court clerkships are increasingly given on ideological grounds. Thus, the hiring process for clerks serves to reinforce whatever ideology is already dominant in the judiciary. Also, academia includes law school faculty. Thus, even though I think conservatism is tolerated more in law schools than, say, in social sciences departments, those in charge of training future lawyers tend to be far more leftist than society as a whole.
  18. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108216
    Tully HERE, Patrick. (Really, I am S'ing TFU now. Except to say that I don't think even Kennedy knows what Kennedy thinks from moment to moment.)
  19. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108271
    Jay_C I think this old (1995) article ties in nicely with the discussion here... http://www.publicpurpose.com/pp-fmand.htm I agree with most of it as I beleive it applies to constitutionality of Federal healthcare Mandates and the Methods the Federal Government in General holds the "carrot and the stick" or "puppet strings" of the States. He goes into greater detail, but here synopsis from the artice... "In summary, my message is this. The United States has a tradition of government by rule of laws and not by rule of men. Federal mandates are inconsistent with the fundamental law of the United States. And they are pervasive. It is important that steps be taken to remove federal mandates, and this will require a comprehensive, rather than a piecemeal, approach. This is required not only to revitalize the rule of law under the Constitution, but also to conform to the most basic of democratic principles. Nothing less will be sufficient. Because government of the people, by the people, and for the people is government that is closer to the people."
  20. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108273
    Jason Arvak I would argue that purist libertarian interpretations of the Constitution are intellectually interesting but politically dead. The debate over Constitutionality of health care mandates will have to take place within the context of existing interpretations and precedents, not a "comprehensive" effort to expunge ALL federal mandates from the books. That's simply not going to happen.
  21. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108275
    Jay_C The Bill of Rights was ratified and came into effect on December 15th, 1791. Many do not know that there was a preamble to the Bill of Rights.... ”Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine... THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent starts of its institution. RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz. ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution....” To me, this says a lot about the intent of the bill of rights. As I understand, it means that "The People" did not want a government that could arbitrarily impose laws that could infringe on the rights of the people to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I beleive we all should feel that oure rights are ours...individually, and are inalienable afforded and guaranteed by our Creator. From how I understand the general tone of the spirit of the Bill of Rights is that the federal government is restricted in what it can do in the name of the country and to the country, the *individual is sovereign* and affords authority to the government to run the day to day business of running the country and to keep the United States... united. Some feel that our country is going away from this perceived intent and purpose of the constitution and the fundamental ideals of our country. Weather technically unfounded or not, growing movements against actions taken by this Congress and the President are based on the protection against ‘misconstruction or abuse of powers’. Their fears are not trumped up "dog and pony shows", but are real fears to these individuals, and based the above understanding of the preamble of the Bill of Rights.
  22. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108276
    Jay_C @Jason Arvak "I would argue that purist libertarian interpretations of the Constitution are intellectually interesting but politically dead." Politically dead? I wouldnt go that far, (perhaps on life support) I would agree there is a VERY big hill to climb on this, but legally, (as far as I can see as a layperson) it appears to be very much legally alive at this point, and all that is needed is political will to climb that hill.
  23. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108277
    Jason Arvak Preambles are rhetorical devices and are not enforceable as part of the Constitution itself. And if the goal you pursue in opposing the health care package is to seek a broad transformation of the entire system of Constitutional interpretation to "restore" it to some imagined 18th Century ideal, you will fail. There is no foundation of support in the courts, the legislatures, or the general public to support a complete and total destruction of the entire edifice of Constitutional law just because a few libertarians want to reimagine the entire thing. If the goal instead is to point out how the health care package contradicts even the existing structure of Constitutional interpretation and precedent, there is a chance. It is the same division between purism and pragmatism I've talked about elsewhere. Usually, I am opposing progressive purism as overreaching and dangerous. But there are conservative and libertarian varieties of purism that are equally flawed, in my opinion. Wanting to reconstruct some imagined Constitutional interpretation designed for an 18th Century world is, in my opinion, both intellectually flawed and pragmatically dangerous. This is the stuff that makes Ron Paul people widely seen (appropriately) as loons. The intensity of their 18th Century fantasies are so strong that they just don't live in the real world any more.
  24. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108279
    Jay_C Perhaps, dont get me wrong, I agree with pragmatism 100% (but that is what I believe ammendments are for), the Court has read the preamble [of the Constitution] as bearing witness to the fact that the Constitution emanated from the people and was not the act of sovereign and independent States, McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.)
  25. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108280
    Jay_C "And if the goal you pursue in opposing the health care package is to seek a broad transformation of the entire system of Constitutional interpretation to “restore” it to some imagined 18th Century ideal, you will fail." this is not my goal "If the goal instead is to point out how the health care package contradicts even the existing structure of Constitutional interpretation and precedent, there is a chance." this along with many other things like how the healthcare package contradicts even the existing structure of Constitutional interpretation and precedent, are my goal.
  26. Posted by John Janek
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108539
    John Janek Nice site - Like what you did. Wishing you a very happy and prosperous new year !