2012 May 22 |
 |
http://www.theatlanticright.com/2009/12/29/progressive-nyt-columnist-herbert-says-obamacare-tax-is-confiscatory/
0
0
  |   23 comments

I am vehemently opposed to the Senate health care bill for reasons that I cannot even begin to describe in a brief blog post. Nevertheless, I now find myself in the weird position of defending one aspect of the bill against a ”progressive” critic, New York Times columnist Bob Herbert.

Don’t get me wrong. I heartily welcome Herbert’s opposition to the bill. I am sympathetic to his argument that the bill ”would impose a confiscatory 40 percent excise tax on so-called Cadillac health plans . . . [impacting] millions of middle-class policyholders, forcing them to scale back their access to medical care . . .  which is exactly what the tax is designed to do . . . if policyholders have to pay more out of their own pockets, they will be more careful — that is to say, more reluctant — to access health services.” It is a big step for Herbert to admit that taxes can be confiscatory and that Democrats might not be the middle class champions they claim to be. Moreover, I agree that the tax is a sham dressed up as a market-friendly reform.

Unfortunately, Herbert’s critique is premised on an anti-market mentality:

We all remember learning in school about the suspension of disbelief. This part of the Senate’s health benefits taxation scheme requires a monumental suspension of disbelief. According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, less than 18 percent of the revenue will come from the tax itself. The rest of the $150 billion, more than 82 percent of it, will come from the income taxes paid by workers who have been given pay raises by employers who will have voluntarily handed over the money they saved by offering their employees less valuable health insurance plans.

Can you believe it?

I asked Richard Trumka, president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O., about this. (Labor unions are outraged at the very thought of a health benefits tax.) I had to wait for him to stop laughing to get his answer. “If you believe that,” he said, “I have some oceanfront property in southwestern Pennsylvania that I will sell you at a great price.”

A survey of business executives by Mercer, a human resources consulting firm, found that only 16 percent of respondents said they would convert the savings from a reduction in health benefits into higher wages for employees. Yet proponents of the tax are holding steadfast to the belief that nearly all would do so.

“In the real world, companies cut costs and they pocket the money,” said Larry Cohen, president of the Communications Workers of America and a leader of the opposition to the tax. “Executives tell the shareholders: ‘Hey, higher profits without any revenue growth. Great!’ ”

Let’s see, Bob Herbert went looking for input on a question pertaining to economics. Instead of talking to an economist, he dialed up two union reps. Then, he spoke to an HR consulting firm that had conducted one attitudinal survey of business executives during a major recession. Case closed, says the reality-based columnist.

Ugh, Bob . . . sure, companies could choose to “pocket the money,” thereby significantly reducing their employees’ total compensation packages. Over time, these companies could then also “choose” to watch as much of their more talented and hard working employees left for other firms that were willing to pay true market value for their services. Heck, a basic understanding of this principle might be the ONLY coherent thing in the entire Senate bill and yet Bob Herbert thinks that is the most absurd part of the bill?

  1. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107851
    Tully It's also a very big step for "Automatic Bob" to admit to the merest possibility of the potential existence of bracket creep, much less same ever affecting the middle class.
  2. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107861
    Doomed No one likes this bill. The right. The far left. Moderates. It has indeed become a save the president bill. So here is what I predict will happen. It goes to the House. They put the public option back in it and might even put the social security to 55 back in it. Fund abortion and send it back to the Senate. Harry Reid uses the Nuclear Option giving the 7 or 8 senators who cant vote for this a way out and it becomes law with 51 votes. Harry Reid promised the far left that no bill sent to the president for a signature would be without a public option. Do they dare? I say yes. The public hates this bill. Everyones opposed to it and the Democrats are in the unenviable position of passing a humongous entitlement program in a recession without ANY GOP support. They might as well pass a bill that their base wants. Public option with abortion and the impossible to repeal language written in to it. Thats my prediction. I predict the Democrats are just emboldened enough to do it.
  3. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107867
    Todd "No one likes this bill. The right. The far left. Moderates." Blame the blue dogs, I say. The filibuster is an important feature, but it gives a few senators who represent little of the population far too much clout. "Everyones opposed to it and the Democrats are in the unenviable position of passing a humongous entitlement program in a recession without ANY GOP support." Considering no one in the GOP apparently wanted any kind of bill at all, this was predictable. Wyden-Bennett? Didn't bring in any real enthusiasm in the opposition. Snowe? Wanted to the delay a bill until the point where the process would die of itself - nice try though.
  4. Michael Merritt
    Blame the blue dogs, I say. The filibuster is an important feature, but it gives a few senators who represent little of the population far too much clout.
    Would you still be saying this if the Dems were in the minority?
    Considering no one in the GOP apparently wanted any kind of bill at all, this was predictable.
    They wanted a bill, but most of the plans were as radical (in the opposite direction) as the one the Dems really wanted.
  5. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107888
    Todd "Would you still be saying this if the Dems were in the minority?" Let's agree to end or alter the filibuster in 2014 or 2012, no jonesing - no one knows how congress will look at that time. "They wanted a bill, but most of the plans were as radical (in the opposite direction) as the one the Dems really wanted." They would have achieved a bill that would have disappointed liberals even more (that's the current definition of bipartisanship, no?) if they had played ball from the start. Instead, they tried a high-risk, high-reward strategy and lost. A well deserved snubbing from fortune.
  6. Pingback | Link #107892
    Obamacare Tax is Confiscatory | NewsReal Blog [...] Read the whole thing at PoliGazette. VN:F [1.7.9_1023]please wait...Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast) [...]
  7. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107918
    Tully Let’s agree to end or alter the filibuster in 2014 or 2012 HELL, NO. The filibuster serves a very real and vital purpose, namely the moderation and damping down of highly partisan swings in governance, the short-stopping of "heat of the moment" public sentiment. The tyranny of the majority is a problem regardless of WHICH side has that temporary majority, and the filibuster is meant to help prevent that. The Senate is supposed to be the more sober and considered body, he one that moderates the unfettered majoritarianism of the House. “Would you still be saying this if the Dems were in the minority?” Yes, I would. I can remember being excoriated by the Right for cheering on the "Gang of 14" when they defused Frist's threats to use the "nuclear option." My opinion there hasn't changed just because the side of the majority has. We have checks and balances for very good reasons. I would prefer MORE checks and balances, not fewer.
  8. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107920
    Tully And yes, I apply the same reasoning to Senate confirmations. Indeed, the greater the partisan divide, the wider the gap between sides, the more crucial I see that filibuster as being for the good of the nation. The two parties have done their damndest to stamp out the moderate middle where a majority can so often agree on things, and the divide has gotten wider, with a plurality of voters now falling between the parties rather than in either one. Under such conditions, the filibuster is even more important now than it has been in the past.
  9. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107921
    Todd "The Senate is supposed to be the more sober and considered body, he one that moderates the unfettered majoritarianism of the House. " Well, sure, that's what it is supposed to be. How much time should we give it to improve?
  10. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107922
    Tully As compared to your desire to actively make it worse and defeat that end? Forver.
  11. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107924
    Todd So let's alter it then. The question is how. The senate is now proof positive that even ideals like "centrism" and "moderation" can be taken hostages by much less noble impulses.
  12. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107927
    Tully So let’s alter it then. The question is how. Still dealing with that reading comprehension problem, I see. What part of "HELL, NO!" did you utterly fail to understand, that you would both assume and imply that I was even remotely in agreement with your destructive proposal to "end or alter the filibuster?" Regardless of the party in the majority at any given time?
  13. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107930
    Todd "Still dealing with that reading comprehension problem, I see. What part of “HELL, NO!” did you utterly fail to understand, that you would both assume and imply that I was even remotely in agreement with your destructive proposal to “end or alter the filibuster?” Regardless of the party in the majority at any given time?" Nah, you're wrong. The new supermajority should be lower. Or, why not go with Lieberman's gradual and limited proposal? Only good thing out of that corporatist's head for a long time.
  14. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107933
    Tully Answer: Yes, you're still dealing with that intentional reading comprehension problem. Poorly.
  15. Posted by Interested
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107948
    Interested
    Blame the blue dogs, I say. The filibuster is an important feature, but it gives a few senators who represent little of the population far too much clout.
    Dim's loved it when Bush was in office. I suppose this should be another one of those selective laws the Left loves.
    Well, sure, that’s what it is supposed to be. How much time should we give it to improve?
    About the time divided gov't is back in power.
    Or, why not go with Lieberman’s gradual and limited proposal? Only good thing out of that corporatist’s head for a long time.
    You probably think Obama's right of center. .... Only change I'd want to the Filibuster is to back it to the time when they needed to stand and keep on talking until they yield.
  16. Posted by Todd
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107950
    Todd "Dim’s loved it when Bush was in office." "Dims?" Unless that is a spelling error, you can go burn.
  17. Posted by Interested
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107953
    Interested
    Todd : “Dim’s loved it when Bush was in office.” “Dims?” Unless that is a spelling error, you can go burn.
    short for dimwits naturally
  18. Posted by elo quill
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108211
    elo quill there was a belief once that one's payments for a home (rental or ownership) should approximate a fourth of total earnings (income, dividends). there perhaps should be an implicit rule of thumb for health prevention care: let's say the cost should approximate 7% to total earnings. This would not discriminate along the haves and have-nots. Everyone would pay out the same percentage. the care would be egalitarian--the disease determines the medical attention. i like simplicity; there is no econometric model which fits reality.
  19. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108217
    Jason Arvak
    there perhaps should be an implicit rule of thumb for health prevention care: let’s say the cost should approximate 7% to total earnings. This would not discriminate along the haves and have-nots. Everyone would pay out the same percentage.
    This is a terrible idea to attach to a government policy. The idea that housing should ideally approximate 25% of income has never been a matter enforced by the government by taxing everyone 25% of their income in exchange for government-provided housing. But you're implying doing exactly that with regard to health care. That's not fairness. It is a road to an across-the-board 7% gross tax increase in "exchange" for which the government will offer the kind of heavily-rationed, low-access, low-innovation, low-tech health care found in the UK and Canada. And don't for a minute imagine that once the government had its funds on the line for your health care that regulations requiring you to adhere to government-mandated diet and exercise programs would not immediately follow. The problem with government control of health care goes beyond ONLY the taxes.
  20. | Quote | Trackback | Link #108221
    Jason Arvak Also, a mandate that everyone spend 7% of their income on "health prevention care" could include mandatory gym memberships and dietician consultations for everyone, but it would still not deal with actual health care costs. So you're not really solving any problem with that idea unless you're only looking to the hoped-for effects 10-20 years down the road. You would, however, be doing an excellent model of the government "health prevention care" programs stylized in the novel 1984.
  21. Posted by Jay_C
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108223
    Jay_C @Jason Arvak "You would, however, be doing an excellent model of the government “health prevention care” programs stylized in the novel 1984." good one :)
  22. Posted by Jeb
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108226
    Jeb
    It is a road to an across-the-board 7% gross tax increase in “exchange” for which the government will offer the kind of heavily-rationed, low-access, low-innovation, low-tech health care found in the UK and Canada.
    While I don't support the idea of the 7% across the board tax for health care* I still find the UK and Canada canard unconvincing. Why not France? Why is the comparison always to the UK and Canada (the systems we are least likely to copy)? BTW the UK and Canada only have significantly longer wait times for a handful of procedures and continue to innovate in medicine. With controls in place for population size and dollars spent in place I doubt you would see a significant difference in new useful medical procedures coming out of the US, UK, and Canada or most of Western Europe for that matter. * Maybe a tax credit for money spent on medical insurance or health maintenance above 7% of income with a set $ cap would be OK.
  23. Posted by Joe Janecka
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #108542
    Joe Janecka Nice site - Wishing you and yours a very happy and prosperous new year !