2012 May 22 |
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http://www.theatlanticright.com/2009/11/21/cooking-the-books-on-climate/
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Is the climate changing, and are we responsible?  It is a hotly debated question. However, the lack of readily accessible data, and the reluctance of some of the climate researchers to make all their data and research material available to skeptics has made some of the skeptics suspicious that perhaps the work wasn’t entirely up to generally recognized scientific standards. Now it appears there may be evidence that the skeptics are right. The evidence comes in the form of massive numbers of e-mails from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, in the UK. The e-mails, obtained by a hacker, seem to show a pattern of attempts by some climate research scientists to avoid sharing research data which might dispute their claims that the climate is being changed by human activity. More telling are some e-mails which indicate that some of the scientists may have been talking about ways to avoid supplying data they believed would damage their agenda. Some of this has been picked up by the libertarian law blog, Volokh Conspiracy, which also links to other comments on the subject.

Most posters at Volokh, understandably is interested in the legal aspects of this. Is it simply criminal activity – vandalism, hacking, electronic theft – or is it whistle-blowing, like Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon papers? Personally, I tend toward the latter view. I also find it especially hard to give much sympathy to the people defending the CRU, given that there appears to be evidence that the scientists there were actively working to subvert normal scientific practice for purely political ends. Also, no one in the media was calling for Ellsberg to go to prison, or the prosecution of Mark Felt, AKA “Deep Throat” for his role in unmasking the details of the Watergate break in. Not at all. In fact, the media saw both men as public spirited citizens defending the role of lawful government by unorthodox means. That would seem to apply here as well. In fact, there are folks already referring to “Climategate” – see the main page here at Poligazette.

Climate change has been a contentious subject for the past forty years. Back in the 1970s the outrageous theory was that we would suffer global cooling, and all freeze to death. Since then, the ascendant theory is Man-Made Climate Change (or, to the politically correct, Anthropomorphic Global Warming – AGW). As more and more people began asking questions about the scientific studies supporting MMCC, they found that even AGW was too contentious, and opted to refer to “Climate Change,” which sounded more neutral, but, they assured us in less strident terms, was a scientifically proven reality. AWG was, of course, still the fault of mankind, especially developed Western countries like the USA and western Europe. There have always been critics of AWG. However, the scientific community has not been particularly welcoming of them, and the critics have grumbled that the mainstream scientific community has tended to close ranks in defense of AWG theorists. Until now, this has been a “he said – she said” sort of situation, where no one could really show bad faith on the part of anyone else.

That seems to have been changed. If the e-mails are genuine, it seems that there is reason to believe that some of the scientists at the Climate Research Unit have, not to put too fine a point on it, cooked the books. There are items implying that the research samples in some cases were cherry picked to provide desired results. There are items which read to ordinary people as someone talking about how to hide evidence of manipulating data to obtain a desired result; and of efforts to avoid responding to requests for data and other information which might be embarrassing to the research goal.

You won’t find the mainstream media looking into this. In the USA the media is too busy obsessing about the fact that so many people want to buy Sara Palin’s book, and that Oprah Winfrey is taking her show off broadcast television. The media is obsessed with a woman they hate, and a woman they love, and has no interest in the possibility that some geeks in England are lying about the accuracy of data being used to bolster claims that we need to destroy the entire economies of the developed Western world or face climactic apocalypse. No, nothing to see here. Just more about how intellectually incompetent some woman politician with a degree from the University of Idaho is, and how brilliant the other self-made woman with the TV program is.

This affair damns the intellectual elites – on campus, in the media, in politics – rather completely. A group of scientists engaging in unscientific behavior are positing unstoppable climate change, and no one seems to be willing to demand that they allow those with differing views to have access to their data, and try their theories using the normal scientific practice, of allowing any interested party to access the data, and try to replicate the results for themselves. This is called independently verifiable data and experiments. This is, in crude layman’s terms, how scientific work is done. This is, judging form the e-mails. what is being discouraged by some of the scientists at the CRU. What makes this a great big deal is the reality that the suggested solutions to AWG all essentially destroy the economies of the democratic industrialized nations. Given that, it would seem reasonable that some in government might want to try testing the theories before undertaking something so extreme.

How extreme are the proposals?  Well, I posted on this a few days ago.  The mission to end climate change is was pronounced economically impossible years ago.  Recently the scientific community calling for change seem to have admitted this.  The Institution of Mechanical Engineers, also in the UK, reported that it would not be possible to meet the carbon emission reductions called for in Britain.  Tim Fox, who sides with the MMGW theorists, flatly states that the British targets for carbon emission reductions by 34% from 1990 levels by 2030, and 80% of 1990 levels by 2050 are technologically impossible.  He says, pointedly:  “The ability to undertake the size of task needed to meet the 80% target is not possible within a modern industrialized democracy.”

On top of that statement, we now find evidence that the research upon which claims for such extreme measures be undertaken is suspect.  Not only suspect, but that some of the scientists engaged in it seem to have known that their work did not reach the scientific conclusions they were advocating in the political arena.  This is a scandal.  Much more of a scandal than a failed vice-presidential candidate from Idaho possibly being more popular than any of the media intellectuals criticizing her.  Much more of a scandal than the possibility that President Obama’s health care is going to pay for abortion.

This is a scandal because it cuts to the root of what we profess to believe in democratic society.  That government, media, and intellectual pursuits are intended to be conducted in the open, in an easily understood manner, allowing any citizen to raise questions and receive answers.  The e-mails from the CRU at East Anglia University suggest that instead of open government, open and unfettered scientific and intellectual inquiry, and open and unbiased  reporting by the media,we have elites engaging in intellectual and morally bankrupt practices to force the supposedly democratic governments to make changes in society by undemocratic means.  Changes which are forced upon majority of the public, regardless of their preferences.  Because the arrogant elites know better than the rest of us.

We are in trouble.  Don’t look for anyone in the mainstream media to take an interest.  It looks like this will depend on the new media, the internet to spread the news.  Someone needs to turn the lights out on the New York Times.  It’s no longer a newspaer, but a propaganda organ.  Comrade Lysenko, they’re paging you at the CRU.  Read all about it in Pravda.

  1. Posted by Poptech
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    Poptech “From: Phil Jones To: “Michael E. Mann” Subject: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL Date: Thu Jul 8 16:30:16 2004 I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Cheers Phil” Here are a “few” of the papers they managed to keep out, 450 Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of “Man-Made” Global Warming http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
  2. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed Do not let the AGW crowd talk temperature. They can take temperature readings on hot asphalt and say see the readings in San Diego are going up drastically. HEAT RETENTION..........that is the key..........their own data says that the atmosphere has heated 1/10th of ONE degree in 33 years. They say the polar ice is melting yet their OWN DATA says that the ice is INCREASING each year in the ANTARCTIC for the last 33 years!! AGW science is bunk!!!...A scam!!!! The science is not settled...and those of us responsible for truly making this planet healthier and safer continue to find new and inventive ways to save the planet...while these guys collect millions to write bogus reports.
  3. Orson Buggeigh A lot of us have had serious doubts about AGW. A lot of us have tended to think of it as a scam. The scary part is, we can see how this is operating. No differently than the Nixon White House, we have a select few who have decided that they know what is best for the world, and those who disagree should shut up and do what they are told. No thank you. I think we need full congressional investigations of what is happening regarding scientific study of climate. We probably need to find out if anyone really has engaged in goon like tactics such as vandalizing labs or weeding out articles because the don't fit the party line. If so, this all needs to be made public, so that we may know what is being done in our name, and by whom.
  4. Posted by C,L. Talmadge
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    C,L. Talmadge Give Pravda a break. The Russian newspaper has a lengthy history of printing articles featuring scientists skeptical of AGW. My biggest fear is that climategate will take down legitimate environmental concerns. Carbon dioxide does not induce any significant atmospheric heating, but sulphur dioxide, nitrous oxides, ash, and other particulates do affect human beings'ability to breathe and thus their health. The entire AGW scam seems to be a giant misdirection of time and energy that benefits only real polluters.
  5. Posted by MJ
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    MJ Sadly, this was all so predictable. In the mid 1970's I studied "Renewable Natural Resources" at the University of California .. a relatively new field of applied environmental studies. Of course, the word 'resources' implies something to be used by mankind. During the course of my studies I witnessed the genesis of the modern environmental movement as more and more 'scientists' (and I use that word loosely) became politicized and radicalized - frankly I think this was in part due to the ending of the Vietnam war and the desire by many in the counter-culture to protest **something**, anything. At about this time, I also observed that many of those who wanted to make careers in the so-called 'soft sciences' were frustrated because little or no money was available to fund science with little or no practical application. Soft science was attractive to many who really did not want to get a real job, because getting a Ph.d in say, climatology, or environmental studies, etc was far less rigorous than in the traditional physical or biological sciences and way less work than doing something like going to med school and then *gasp* actually working for 16 hours a day. Hence, we now have a cadre of 50-something leftists and former hippies who profess to be scientists, but are actually politically driven idealogues trying to make a buck.
  6. Posted by PMG
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    PMG There seems to be an unholy trinity between the 'scientists', journalists, and power-hungry progressive politicians. Money (confiscated from taxpayers) is redistributed to researchers who come up with the "right" answers to justify whatever new draconian wealth theft scheme the globalist/marxist politicians need to justify the 'emergency' takeover of this or that sector of the economy. Meanwhile the leftist journalists cheerlead from the side, acting as the gatekeepers of information. In the emails one finds correspondance between Michael Mann (Penn State - the man behind the 'hockey stick' temp graph) and Andrew Revkin. He is the "Global Environment" reporter at the New York Times. It is clear that the cabal of researchers in the UK and US viewed him as an ally, who could be depended upon to tow the party line....a fellow traveler. I hope this gets huge. How much money were they going to steal from us all to pay for 'climate debt'....trillions? God help us if even this clear cut evidence of collusion, deception, and intentionally bad science is still pushed by Gore and the marxists. The man has incredible moxy. I wouldn't put it past him. Surely he has know this is all bs for a very long time.
  7. Posted by Scott A. Mandia
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    Scott A. Mandia The skeptics are getting excited about some emails but let us look at what we have besides a few emails: 1) UAH, RSS, and GISS show warming also 2) Rapidly warming Arctic 3) Rapidly decreasing sea ice extent 4) Rapidly thinning sea ice 5) Rising ocean heat content 6) Cooling stratosphere 7) Net increase in downwelling LW 8) Net decreasing TOA LW emission 9) Increased species migrations/extinctions 10) Increased severe weather occurrences 11) Glacier mass loss and retreats increasing 12) Rising sea levels 13) Rapidly rising human emissions of GHGs that have not been seen in millions of years. 14) etc., etc., etc. Try to keep some perspective. These things listed above do not read emails.
  8. Orson Buggeigh Scott Mandia. Thanks for the list. The believers in Man-Made Global Warming (MMGW) or Anthropomorphic Global Warming (AGW) for the PC really don't have settled science on their side. The list you offer, like the list drawn up by many hard core skeptics, shows that we have a lot of very fragmentary data, and very little falsifiable data to absolutely settle anything regarding what role people have in climate change. Someone else, who is a scientist, posted a comment which puts this in context nicely: most of the conclusions offered by the AGW supporters are based on such tiny data as to be highly dubious. His analogy - it was like a tobacco company finding a dozen smokers who lived into their 90s and died of other causes to make the claim that smoking is not hazardous to health. True in those cases, but not provable in the larger context. That's the problem with much of the AGW data. What we DO have, however, is very good evidence that the people who are big players in the AGW believing side of the research community are engaging in behavior which is NOT ethical, and also NOT good science. A recent post in the comments on the Volokh Conspiracy post on the Scientists Unfiltered is from the man who made the initial Freedom of Information requests from the CRU. The e-mails show how the CRU's leading climate scientists decided to avoid complying with legitimate requests such as his,and then squared that with the university authorities who are supposed to oversee compliance with FOI requests. Many folks - actual scientists - think this is NOT how science is done. Most of the people arguing that there is nothing to see here would be screaming for congressional inquiries if someone at the Department of Defense stonewalled their FOI requests,and they wouldn't be nearly as philosophical about the evidence that publicly funded research is being intentionally withheld from the public. That is what the e-mails show is happening. To cut to the chase, what is going on at CRU is NOT legitimate science at this point; the people at the top are quite possibly misusing public funds; and there seems to be a conspiracy among the parties involved to prevent the public from learning about their misuse of public funds and facilities. Maybe that doesn't bother some folks, but it infuriates me.
  9. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed I would agree with one point that Scott pointed out above. There is indeed due diligence needed to ensure that we are stewards of the planet. That we curtail the releases of harmful particulates into the air and water. That smog, pollution and the release of GHG.......or GREEN HOUSE GASES is of utmost concern and should be addressed. However CO2 is not.....nor has it ever been a factor in global warming. It is nothing more then the progressive LEFTS desire to punish the world and corporations for their perceived injustices to the world and planet in a bizarre attempt at punitive regulations which would set back worldwide progress by 75 years. C02 is not nor has it ever been a factor in global warming. The fact that it is increasing is a perfectly natural part of the warming trend of the planet for the last 112,000 years....or since the end of the last glacial age.
  10. Posted by Richard Horton
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    Richard Horton "1) UAH, RSS, and GISS show warming also...." From when exactly? I'll tell you, 1979. We are talking climate, not 30 years. "2) Rapidly warming Arctic" Compared to what exactly? Compared to the very data being "hidden" as mentioned in these emails. "3) Rapidly decreasing sea ice extent" See #2 "4) Rapidly thinning sea ice" See #2 "5) Rising ocean heat content" See #1 "6) Cooling stratosphere" See #1 etc etc etc. That is why so much stock is put in things like the Hockey Stick graph, generated by 12 tress on one Russian peninsula - and excluding those that didnt help the graph out - or by damaged trees. Its a crock. These emails also show the way "science" gets done these days. Mann announces "Gee I'd love to see the [scientifically well established] Medieval Warm Period go away." And, LO! and BEHOLD! within a couple of years the MWP is consigned to the dustbin of history (presumably right next to capitalism) by these very same people. Who knew one could change the historical record by merely willing it away?! Add to that a little intimidation (remove an editor here, ruin a reputation there), and welcome to "science" the way Stalin enjoyed it.
  11. Orson Buggeigh I agree with Doomed that there is a stewardship issue, but I do not think that should be a proxy for trashing the scientific method. Encouraging people, as individuals or corporately (be they Fortune 500 companies or non-profits) to use natural resources carefully, and to minimize pollution is sensible. However, that dos not allow for forcing people out of their jobs, trashing people's reputations, and refusing to provide publicly financed data when asked to do so. It certainly doesn't include fudging the data to support preconceived political agendas. Al of which seem to have been done by the folks at CRU.
  12. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed Historical data provide a baseline for judging how anomalous recent temperature changes are and for assessing the degree to which organisms are likely to be adversely affected by current or future warming. Climate histories are commonly reconstructed from a variety of sources, including ice cores, tree rings, and sediment. Tree-ring data, being the most abundant for recent centuries, tend to dominate reconstructions. There are reasons to believe that tree ring data may not properly capture long-term climate changes. In this study, eighteen 2000-year-long series were obtained that were not based on tree ring data. Data in each series were smoothed with a 30-year running mean. All data were then converted to anomalies by subtracting the mean of each series from that series. The overall mean series was then computed by simple averaging. The mean time series shows quite coherent structure. The mean series shows the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) and Little Ice Age (LIA) quite clearly, with the MWP being approximately 0.3°C warmer than 20th century values at these eighteen sites....Loehle, Craig If you can actually find a professor in college who is not agenda driven but science driven you will find a quite refreshing discussion on CO2 and its effects both historically and scientifically within the realms of the AGW debate. Simply put by literally tens of thousands of scientists of no small stature.......Global Warming is happening....it has been happening for 100,000 plus years or since the end of the last glacial age. Ice sheets have been receeding...thats what they do when the globe warms. C02 builds up when trillions of new acres of land are available for vegetation which live and die. Trillions of more acres of decaying vegetation throws a massive amount of co2 into the atmosphere. The planet continues to heat up until our sinks become supersaturated with c02. Another period of glaciation occurs. According to some really smart scientists this switch happens really fast...geologically...on the order of a couple hundred years or less....see little ice age for an example. The AGW science is Agenda driven Bunk and these emails are simply a means to point out the deception to which the AGW crowd is going. The Main stream scientists who want to feed their families have literally been Gestapo'd into silence by the militant AGW scientific community. I wonder if we've actually found a cure for cancer and militant scientists are keeping that from us as well???? Makes you wonder...
  13. Posted by Mskit
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    Mskit Most scientists agree that global warming is happening. I don't know where folks are getting information that the ice sheets are rapidly expanding, that does not appear to be the case. The big question is do humans have any impact on this process? I think it will take much more research to actually determine that and it may be irrelevant by the time the true answer is known. The fact is, it is happening and how are we going to cope? I'm not a scientist, but water levels are rising where I live. How do I know this? 1) Personal observation and 2) the flood insurance requirements were changed so that houses that were built under the old regulations (7 ft above sea level - now 6 ft above sea level) would still be insurable and able to keep their mortgages. When the government, insurance companies and banks get together to change something like this you know something is up. (the water level!) My many years of observation (I am not young) have seen the disappearance of a huge variety of wildlife in the coastal area where I live. I have also seen the decline and then the return of the pelicans after DDT was banned. I have seen more dolphins (Yeah!), less ducks, and rarer geese, more canada geese. There are fewer fish, fewer horse shoe crabs (from literally piles of them to almost none), fewer shore birds, less of a variety of mollusks and sea plants. My greatest concern about the whole global warming debate is while we dither around about carbon capture etc. We drop the ball on the real issues that we humans actually DO have an impact on such as destruction of habitat, over fishing, agricultural chemical runoff, regular old air and water pollution. These things we CAN control and we had better get a handle on it soon. Any one who took high school biology knows from their experiments that living organisms in a closed habitat will eventually die from their own waste if the population expands beyond the limits of what the habitat can handle. As a species we should really take a harder look at 1) birth control (not abortion) 2) continued research into energy production, farming and manufacturing methods that do not negatively impact the natural world on which we depend for our air and water.
  14. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed Mskit AGW is indeed happening simply because we ended the last glacial age 112,000 years ago...roughly. Since then the planet has been warming. Additionally no one is claiming that Ice sheets are Rapidly expanding. The growth is on the order of about .3-2.7 percent per year but has been growing and not shrinking for the last 30 plus years. Estimates suggest that Greenland and Antarctica have contributed 0.0 to 0.5 mm/yr sea level rise over the 20th century as a result of long-term adjustment to the end of the last ice age. Additionally pack ice and polar ice floats and its melting is inconsequential because it already displaces the maximum amount of volume that it should barring minor adjustments for the fact that the ice melt is fresh water and not salt water. The real consequence of the melting of polar ice is the release of CO2 back into the atmosphere. The majority of CO2 being released back into the air is the result of the cutting of forests. The major burn off of large chunks of forests, Decaying plant life from trillions of acres of new lands revealed by receeding pack ice and the melting of ice which releases its trapped gases back into the air. Man made production of co2 would ultimately change the current readings in the atmosphere by about 3ppm. Beyond insignificant. However blaming c02 and ultimately MANKIND for all our ills is a great way for the AGW crowd to fund their guilty conscience and funnell massive amounts of money to poor countries in an attempt to assuage their angst over driving suvs and eating fast food and burning wood in their wood burning fireplaces.
  15. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed
    However blaming c02 and ultimately MANKIND for all our ills is a great way for the AGW crowd to fund their guilty conscience and funnell massive amounts of money to poor countries in an attempt to assuage their angst over driving suvs and eating fast food and burning wood in their wood burning fireplaces.
    AGW..their crowning (Hopefully)achievement is designed to send more and more jobs overseas. Because by passing cap and trade type legislation corporations will be forced to move more and more of their plants overseas in an effort to make money. It is I know…evil…but corporations and businesses are in the business to make money. ***YET*** The democrats biggest bitch is jobs going over seas and the loss of job stability here at home. Both of these they lay at the feet of the Republicans who are trying to keep corporations from going overseas by giving them HUGE tax incentives….CORPORATE WELFARE…which the left has turned into a negative talking point. So on the one hand the left rails against corporations moving jobs overseas and on the other hand they are passing legislation designed to MOVE JOBS OVERSEAS. Its a magic show. The Democrats have the American public messmerized by their slight of hand card tricks and the MSM is clapping and grinning and giggling at the wonderful three ring performance they are seeing totally enamored by the Ring master while the 60 clowns pile into their Mini Cooper and drive around in circles. The greatest show on earth...Its a spectacle to behold.
  16. Posted by Orson Buggeigh
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    Orson Buggeigh Ilya Somin has a post on the subject at the Volokh Conspiracy, "'Climategate' and the Social Validation of Knowledge." I don't agree with all the points he makes, but it is a thoughtful piece, and many of the comments are as well. An important point to take away from all of this: Much of what drives this is NOT science, at least not the scientific method most of us learned in school. The behavior of the CRU Team (one commenter nicely dubbed them 'the wrecking CRU,'is not consistent with good science. the team/s behavior IS, however, much like the behavior of the administration and 88 faculty at Duke, and Michael Nifong, who tried to railroad innocent guys to prison to support a social construct of white on black violence, or Michael Bellesile, who manufactured and mis-used historical data to argue that Americans were not historically gun owners; or Ward Churchill manufacturing and mis-using historical data to claim the U.S. Government was intentionally spreading smallpox among the Indians. What we have is a group of academics, now widespread groups, who are willingly engaging in fabrication, deceit, and outright fraud to defend their social/political beliefs. People should be furious. Their tax dollars are being directed to fund research that is not verifiable, and a small group of self-proclaimed experts have driven their agenda to re-define the world economy through international agreements without any sort of critical oversight. I would encourage Britons and US Citizens to contact their representatives and demand investigations of what is going on in the field of climate research, and open the records for all to see. Since these are publicly funded projects,. the public has every right to know there money is being spent wisely and ethically. If it is not, changes need to be made. If people are breaking the law - i.e. circumventing legitimate FOIA requests for publicly funded research - then there should be prosecutions.
  17. Posted by Jeb
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    Jeb This is worth a read. There are a few troubling e-mails in the bunch, but at this point it is still not certain that all of them are genuine.
    Back in the 1970s the outrageous theory was that we would suffer global cooling, and all freeze to death.
    By a few popular publications not in the scientific literature and not supported by any major scientific institution.
    the ascendant theory is Man-Made Climate Change (or, to the politically correct, Anthropomorphic Global Warming – AGW)
    Anthropogenic = man-made The term most commonly used in scientific circles is global climate change or anthropogenic climate change.
    There are items implying that the research samples in some cases were cherry picked to provide desired results.
    None of the emails I have seen referenced imply this. Could you be specific?
    There are items which read to ordinary people as someone talking about how to hide evidence of manipulating data to obtain a desired result
    By this I assume you are referring to the "trick" e-mail. Trick in the context used simply means a useful method. In this case the "trick" involved dealing with the problem of divergence of tree ring data from recent temperature records (post 1960). Read the linked article for a more full explanation.
    On top of that statement, we now find evidence that the research upon which claims for such extreme measures be undertaken is suspect. Not only suspect, but that some of the scientists engaged in it seem to have known that their work did not reach the scientific conclusions they were advocating in the political arena.
    I don't think that is supported by the hacked emails.
  18. Posted by Jay_C
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    Jay_C @Jeb "There are a few troubling e-mails in the bunch, but at this point it is still not certain that all of them are genuine." Of the ones that *you deem* troubling and genuine, does those help or hurt the case for man-made climate change? Actually,I hread that a 62 megabyte zip file, containing around 160 megabytes of emails, pdfs and other documents, has been confirmed as genuine by the head of the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit, Dr Phil Jones… If this is true, that seems like an awful lot of "genuine stuff". And being that the University's reputation is at stake, it would behoove Mr. Jones / the University to only make this claim unless it is true.... But, being that the jury on this still appears to be out, I concede that despite that I believe they are all genuine (just hypothetically…..but on principle if they are found to be verified)… Of the information in that 62 megabyte zip file are genuine (regardless of what number we agree is verified genuine or not), and then as a subset, that X number that also contradicts the teams hypothesis (making them both genuine and therefore very troubling from a scientific method / validity point of view) do these X number of e-mails help or hurt the case for proponents of man-made global warming? And if it is determined that these are in fact genuine e-mails, (regardless of the degree which we agree they should effect anything) should this new information hold up to a certain degree any legislation regarding climate change / the cap and trade bill? My opinion is that most reasonable people would agree that any legislation regarding climate change / the cap and trade bill should be slowed down or halted due to these new discoveries of false information when / if they come out. Has anyone seen any stories that verify these e-mails as officially genuine?
  19. Posted by Doomed
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    Doomed
    By this I assume you are referring to the “trick” e-mail. Trick in the context used simply means a useful method. In this case the “trick” involved dealing with the problem of divergence of tree ring data from recent temperature records (post 1960). Read the linked article for a more full explanation.
    The mathematics behind the Mann Hockey Stick were badly flawed, such that its shape was determined by suspect bristlecone tree ring data. Controversies quickly piled up: Two expert panels involving the U.S. National Academy of Sciences were asked to investigate, the U.S. Congress held a hearing, and the media followed the story around the world. The expert reports upheld all of our criticisms of the Mann Hockey Stick, The expert reports upheld all of our criticisms of the Mann Hockey Stick, both of the mathematics and of its reliance on flawed bristlecone pine data. One of the panels, however, argued that while the Mann Hockey Stick itself was flawed, a series of other studies published since 1998 had similar shapes, thus providing support for the view that the late 20th century is unusually warm. The IPCC also made this argument in its 2007 report. But the second expert panel, led by statistician Edward Wegman, pointed out that the other studies are not independent. They are written by the same small circle of authors, only the names are in different orders, and they reuse the same few data climate proxy series over and over. They are written by the same small circle of authors, only the names are in different orders, and they reuse the same few data climate proxy series over and over. So once again as you can see. How do you hide the data? WHAT trick do you use to make the facts fit your assumed conclusion? The spin is fast becoming...the trick is legitimate science. Dont believe it. Legitimate science does not hide facts...It questions them.
  20. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #106540
    Doomed Most of the proxy data does not show anything unusual about the 20th century. But two data series have reappeared over and over that do have a hockey stick shape. One is this flawed bristlecone data that the National Academy of Sciences panel said should NOT be used, so the studies using it can be set aside. The second was a tree ring curve from the Yamal Peninsula in Siberia, compiled by UK scientist Keith Briffa. Briffa published a paper in 1995 claiming that the Medieval period actually contained the coldest year of the millennium. But this claim depended on just three tree ring cores from the Polar Urals. Later F.H. Schweingruber produced a much larger sample from the Polar Urals: The medieval era was actually quite warm and the late 20th century was unexceptional. OPPS. Briffa and Schweingruber never published those data, instead they dropped the Polar Urals altogether from their climate reconstruction papers. Briffa and Schweingruber never published those data, instead they dropped the Polar Urals altogether from their climate reconstruction papers. In its place they used a new series that Briffa had calculated from tree ring data from the nearby Yamal Peninsula that had a pronounced Hockey Stick shape: relatively flat for 900 years then sharply rising in the 20th century. Great!! Here you go. Heres proof that the hockey stick works and proves the global warming advocates are correct. Sadly.... This Yamal series was a composite of an UNDISCLOSED number of individual tree cores. In order to check the steps involved in producing the composite, it would be necessary to have the individual tree ring measurements themselves. But Briffa didn't release his raw data. But Briffa didn't release his raw data. Yet folks this report has powerful credance around the globe with no supporting data to be checked, rechecked and verified by those who want the truth and not an agenda. We report. You decide.
  21. Posted by Tully
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #106617
    Tully Jeb's "RealClimate" toss-off reference should be dismissed out of hand, as should Talmadge's "Pravda said it so it's false" line. One is the argument from authority, the other straight ad hominem. RealClimate, BTW, was founded by the same people whose emails got leaked, Mann/Jones et al and their acolytes. The Pravda ad hominem works just as well against RC, if it works at all. And it illustrates another feature of the Church of AGW -- if you doubt the pronouncments of the RC crowd, you're not credible, as no credible scientists are in doubt. Burn the heretics! Talk about circular-reasoning fallacies... What does the primary data say? Oh, wait, we can't answer that, as the scientists in question won't release their unadjusted primary data sets (which conveniently also frees them from justifying their "adjustments" to said primary data). Seems the dog ate it, or something like that. "Accidentally erased" was the excuse provided when Freedom of Information requests finally penetrated far enough at the HRCU. Now we have correspondence from those responsible saying they'll make the data go away rather than release it, which (surprise!) seems to be what actually happened. Uh huh. I have been saying for years that IPCC has become throughly politicized and could not be trusted. That there were major flaws in the working models that rendered them "less than robust," a term of art meaning "unusable." Theoretical construction problems that seemed to violate the laws of physics, and flawed base assumptions that would make an economist blush (and we know how accurate they are). Extensive evidence of questionable data being used as foundational. Extensive evidence of unjustified adjustments to said data. And some major flat-out lies from AGW proponents. The worst of it is that majority of people in the climate science field, who have worked long and hard within the bounds of HONEST science, often relying on models and publications and "adjusted" data based on those "lost" core data sets, are seeing their very real and honest work completely undermined by the dishonest foundations they built upon in all good faith. The doomsayers and apocalyptics have managed to thoroughly discredit good work with bad. There are some very real human effects on climate, but the study of them is now cast in doubt by the doom-saying rent-seeking Church of AGW/Goracle Gang who have monopolized the field with their agendas while concealing their own basic data and methods from any real review. The cure now is as it has always been -- return climate science to the realm of REAL science by returning its practices to those of real science. Open debate, full disclosure of data and methods, etc., and let the chips fall where they may. Some have always followed that path (Roger Pielke Sr., for example) and their reward to date has been to be pilloried as heretics, and run out of IPCC on a rail. But those are precisely the type of REAL scientists who should be running the show, not a bunch of grant-sucking wannabe power players who whore out their credentials for political gains and power plays.
  22. Posted by Doomed
    | Quote | Trackback | Link #107534
    Doomed Too put an exclamation point on my above posts about the tree ring data and the hockey stick charts............. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/14/whats-going-on-cru-takes-down-briffa-tree-ring-data-and-more/ curious huh?