Comment from Michael Merritt
Time October 7, 2009 at 4:17 am PDT

I’ve always been fascinated by the description of liberal academia by conservatives as if it’s some sort of subtle thing that creeps into the minds of students gradually, slowly indoctrinating them.

Maybe my experience has been different, and I don’t deny that liberals have an overwhelming stranglehold on academia (at least at the college level), but I’ve nearly always been able to point out my liberal professors with absurd ease. Some I’ve just been able to tell by how or what they teach, while some others were quite open with it.

One of my favorite political science professors was a liberal, and was upfront with his far-leftyness from the first class.

Two of my other favorite political science professors were Republicans. They were also quite easy to point out, because they were sadly less open with their own views. I just found out that one of them is now running for Congress.

Comment from Jay_C
Time October 7, 2009 at 3:04 pm PDT

Yeah, I agree Michael, I’ve pretty much had the same experience, going to a private College (a pretty liberal one), and I was /am conservative. I think the important thing here is home upbringing vs. what one is exposed to “out there in academia”. While in College, I listened to all the Liberal points of view, but for the most part, I was not “changed”.
But as far as Patrick’s point, applied to K-12, I 100% agree with Patrick.
Actually, once kids are in College, I think it is a bit more of a difficult argument to make, as “kids” are adults at that point, yes, we (and they) are paying for it, but I think at that point, as was the case with me, most young adults if they are brought up by their involved parents to be independent thinkers, and can stand their ground, and are not easily swayed by “the group” , but by facts, I think most kids will “make it through unscathed”. Let me be clear though, this is not to say that only a conservatives has this ability to make it through, but since, as you pointed out, most schools are liberal-leaning, then by default, it is the conservative that for the most part, has to “make it through unscathed” for lack of a better phrase. For the few conservative K-12 school systems, Colleges that are out there, Liberal leaning types could do the same thing.

Comment from Patrick Glenn
Time October 7, 2009 at 3:40 pm PDT

Michael, I’m not a big fan of the word (or concept of) “indoctrination,” because I think it sells people short. The idea that people can be indoctrinated goes hand-in-hand the idea of false consciousness. When I read about history, I always sort of root for the anti-communists/anti-Marxists (retrospectively, that is). But, perhaps, part of being an effective anti-communist (or anti-Alinskyite) is using one’s opponents’ own tools against them, which often involves buying into some or many of their assumptions, too. Thus, people/students can be influenced to varying degrees but rarely can they be truly indoctrinated (short of Mao-style efforts). People/students in a free democratic republic are ultimately responsible for their own beliefs and actions.

On the other hand, the liberal/progressive stranglehold on academia does not have to lead to widespread “indoctrination” to do a lot of damage. Not surpisingly, I have serious issues with the sociopolitical implications of these phenomena (which influence, not indoctrinate). What’s the biggest problem with Hollywood these days? Yeah, more and more, it’s becoming a wasteland of liberal/progressive groupthink, moral backruptcy, etc. But, more importantly, the movies being made in Hollywood almost universally suck! The creeping mediocrity is more worrisome than the so-called creeping indoctrination. Likewise, what’s the biggest problem with liberal/progressive academia . . .

Where I might differ with some other folks who hammer away at these and related issues is that I place the final responsibility on the consumer, not the producer. The producer will keep selling us Pop Tarts and Dancing With the Stars as long as we digest them (and I’m not putting myself above other consumers, either, because I ate a Pop Tart the other day and have watched reality t.v. within the last month, and I’m not begruding the producer making a buck).

Setting aside the question of whether academia partly influences or outright indoctrinates its students, though, what Professor Lipsman described is also a serious issue within the academic world: the hostility to non-progressive views as pertains to advancement within the institutional framework, which is not really that subtle and it doesn’t creep up on students/faculty. It’s usually right out in the open, slapping down those who step out of line. If a student is only there to get a 4-year education and is not concerned about grad school, doesn’t have any interest in becoming a professor him or herself, etc., then he or she can observe this dysfunctional hostility in a detached manner – use it as a laboratory for studying progressivism/liberalism (I did) – and then get out. But not all have that luxury.

Comment from Jay_C
Time October 7, 2009 at 4:04 pm PDT

@Patrick Glenn
“If a student is only there to get a 4-year education and is not concerned about
grad school, doesn’t have any interest in becoming a professor him or herself, etc., then he or she can
observe this dysfunctional hostility in a detached manner – use it as a laboratory for studying progressivism/
liberalism (I did) – and then get out. But not all have that luxury.”

Good point… folks like me, get to “shake it off” if they so choose, once they leave College and work in the private sector but if you hope to be work / teach in academia, or in Hollywood in some capacity, or go to grad school for, say, journalism that is a another story entirely. You may emerge conservative after grad school, but as far as “fitting in” these days the deck is stacked against you from the start.

Comment from Joe W
Time October 19, 2009 at 9:09 pm PDT

So what are people supposed to learn in college? Why do so many people view college as job training and not learning? Did your professor really spell trial lawyer wrong twice?