Doomed History will vindicate Bush and Cheney. For now I just laugh at the spittle flying from the far left loons whenever Bush/Cheney's name is mentioned.

Doomed What is comical is that in the first 2-3 years after Bush was president the left would cast dispersions at Bush and the right would to Yeah but Clinton......... Now where ever you go....When dispersions are cast at Obama the left goes.... Yeah but Bush........... Karma....what goes around comes around.

Jeb

And what are we going to do about that? That’s right; as usual, nothing.

Two questions, 1) What should we do? 2) What would McCain do? (or Bush or Reagan etc)

Doomed I believe its simple Jeb. Had Bush or McCain been president those would have been American ships intercepting those arms. Or N. Korea would not have shipped them at all. End of my post addressed to you Jeb. In general: And if the CIA didnt know a gigantic ship was carrying arms then yeah we need to castrate them some more so they are afraid to open up a computer and spy on something....anything. We can promise them only one thing....its only a matter of time before you do something in the CIA that lands you in jail. So I suggest we close the CIA and hire out the Romanian Secret Service for our intell. The money we save could be used to fund health insurance.

Jeb

Had Bush or McCain been president those would have been American ships intercepting those arms. Or N. Korea would not have shipped them at all.

and your evidence for this is?

Doomed You asked two questions Jeb. I answered. You posed a hypothetical. I answered. So I will present Hypothetical evidence for your hypothetical questions. My supposition is that during the 8 years that Bush was president I don't recall anyone capturing or boarding any Korean ships containing Arms. That extrapolates out to mean that the N. Koreans were not shipping arms via waterways during a time when we had extremely aggressive CIA at work, for fear of the Bush Administration capturing those ships. As soon as Obama gets into office, the CIA becomes castrated, it takes the UAE to capture N. Korean ships.... Its not Rocket Science Jeb. Even your buddy Joe Bidden said this president will be tested. He even made bold predictions that he would be tested. This is simply the N. Koreans testing him. Fail? Pass? Who knows but I suggest that once again its the gutting of the CIA that means we need the UAE to find illegal arms when we should be doing this stuff ourselves. As for hiring the Romanian Secret Service actually Im not kidding. Whats the point of having a spy agency thats involved in clandestine work if your not going to let them spy on people and be clandestine??

Jeb

As soon as Obama gets into office, the CIA becomes castrated, it takes the UAE to capture N. Korean ships….

I am curious how this supposed castration of the CIA effects our naval interdictions.

Doomed I am curious how this supposed castration of the CIA effects our naval interdictions. I know you love to debate and your looking for a red herring, strawman or assumption from me. You will have to settle for my Hypothetical evidence in response to your hypothetical question. Since we do not know for sure what Bush or McCain would do as they are not in office one can only surmise. My assumption is as good as the next mans because it is entirely subjective and I make no claims to its factual integrity.

Saint Michael Traveler Stated: “The United Arab Emirates has seized a ship carrying North Korean-manufactured munitions, detonators, explosives and rocket-propelled grenades bound for Iran..." What is the evidence for the destination of the cargo? Was the cargo marked with an address to be shipped to? How UAE did receive the information about the ship prior to the seizure? What are facts? Stated:"...according to the diplomats, who spoke on condition they aren’t named because the communication hasn’t been made public." This is interesting "they aren’t named". Unknown?

QG The report does not make sense. Why would a ship bound for Iran go to UAE and how would its pip-squeak navy be able to board it? Where is the ship now? Where is its cargo? Also, Iran calls it a complete fabrication designed to detract from the relatively positive recent IAEA report about its nuclear activities. Planted misinformation is common these days when practically no news service has foreign correspondents. Even if it turns out to be true, what is the big deal? The US exports hundreds of billions of dollars worth of weapons all over the world. As far as UN sanctions are concerned, they are not worth the paper they written on since everybody ignores them.

Jon K Michael, this looks to me like a bit of revisionist history. I am not disputing that North Korea has supplied or attempted to supply weapons to rogue states. I am disputing that this is what the Bush Administration meant by Axis of Evil. In all of the explanation of the speech, Bush Administration officials, to my knowledge, never alleged that Iran, Iraq, and/or North Korea were cooperating in any way. Instead, they argued that they all behaved recklessly, were sources of instability, and have ties to terrorism. David Frum, the speechwriter who coined the phrase axis of evil (actually started as axis of hatred), in his book The Right Man, confirms this interpretation. "The Axis powers disliked and distrusted one another", Frum writes. "Had the Axis somehow won the war, its members would quickly have turned on one another." Iran, Iraq, al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah, despite quarrelling among themselves however, "all resented power of the West and Israel, and they all despised the humane values of democracy." There, Frum saw the connection: "Together, the terror states and the terror organizations formed an axis of hatred against the United States." North Korea was added to the list, he says, because it was attempting to develop nuclear weapons, had a history of reckless aggression, and "needed to feel a stronger hand". Not saying North Korea isn't a threat. However, I don't think you can quite make the claim that Bush was right when this wasn't really what he was talking about.

Doomed Jon K Under the terms of a new understanding between the two countries, the North Koreans have agreed to share all the data and information they received from their successful test last October with Teheran's nuclear scientists. Missile experts from Iran are in North Korea to help Pyongyang prepare for a rocket launch, according to reports. On and on these reports go on the internet reported by reputable international news organizations. One can most likely make a successful argument that the Axis of evil speech encouraged the two into becoming allies but never the less facts are facts. They are in fact helping and aiding each other to do things that are gaining international condemnation.

Jon K @Doomed Doomed-- I understand. I agree that "facts are facts." I don't dispute the two are "helping and aiding each other." In my comment, I even said "I am not disputing that North Korea has supplied or attempted to supply weapons to rogue states" and "Not saying North Korea isn’t a threat." I'm simply making the point that the original Axis of Evil speech was not a claim that the axis members were cooperating by supplying each other with weapons, but that they each individually represent a threat to the international order and to American values. Therefore, I'm only saying that the context that Michael supplies to the Axis of Evil speech is revisionist.