RichmondRob The Republicans have fallen low enough to be described as, "we have met the enemy and they are us." They should cut out the Palin Bashing and the Romney Bashing and start to speak of the conservative values that once made them a well respected Party in power.

iBrock Rush confuses protecing the Legacy of Reagan and principles of conservatism with what is meant by moving past Reagan. The culture of the 2008 GOP cycle was such that had Ronald Reagan been a living candidate for the nomination and never before that President to begin with, there's no way he would've even won it. We had a social conservative but liberal governor of Arkansas trying to kick people out of "conservatism" because he was pro-Life longer and harder than everyone else. Well, that of course was his tack against Romney. Given that Reagan too was a pro-Life convert, that would cross him out too. Much worse, Reagan committed the ulimate flip-flop by being a former Democrat even. No crediblity would he have had in 2008. The Reagan Litmus Test is what is meant by intelligent people who say we need to move past Reagan. It doesn't mean to diminish his Legacy, nor ditch conservative principles. It does mean that we cannot run candidates for elected office today and tomorrow against the notion of a man who didn't enjoy such supreme stature when he was in office himself, much less when he was a candidate for office. Van der Galien's absolutely correct to point out that Limbaugh and the Palin die-hards feel entitled to violate Reagan rules when it suits them to trash fellow Republicans. I like Rush and listen to some of his show daily, and agree with him 100% on his diagnosis of what Democrats are up to. However, when Rush tries his hand in prescribing what Republicans need to do, he is far less astute. He acts like it'd be the easiest thing in the world to just be a conservative, say so, and win an election. He, like Palin by his oddly loyal defence of her, thinks that being a culture warrior is a winning strategy. Culture is precious and it is well worthy fighting for, far more than class, but culture warfare is to our party what class warfare is to Democrats--a double edged sword. Reagan didn't command cultural goodness, he persuaded it, he exuded it. To submit that Palin in any shape or form embodies the skill of compelling others to conservatism is hilarity. The more we see her, the more her life looks like the Roseanne Barr Show. Only, it's a very attractive face reinforcing opinions we all already have. For Republicans to win they do have to have ideas. Given that we're out of power on the national level, it's a good idea to launch a circuit of events where Republicans meet with 'the people'. I view it pretty much as the same type of vehicle as the DLC was when it was formed. The DNC and the RNC are the party bodies, but they fail in so many ways, and so these sort of specialized groups can clearly be effective. To see anyone try to kick people out of the party is always to witness an act of emotion prevailing over intellect, but to see Rush do it is upsetting because he's not generally prone to emotion-addled actions. If I were King and could make anyone President, I'd have had easily annoited Mitt Romney (and probably Jeb and maybe Cantor, we'll see how he plays out, and same goes for Paul Ryan) over George W. Bush. This is not a total slap at W.--I certainly think history will view him far more favorably than the voices of the day did--but I still think that Romney would make the best President of his generation: instead of Mitt we got Bill and George; I guess it's true that we usually end up electing the least-capable among us. Anyway, my point is that no matter any Republican's difference from any other Republican's, it is stupid to kick people out of the party. Rush needs to either stick to dissecting Democrats or to quarrantine his perma-pro-Palin emtions so he doesn't sound as ridiculous as a Ron Paul supporter thinking that his candidate has a shot at the Presidency. On that note, actually, Rush states Palin is the voice of conservatism---uh, excuse me Rush, I know you like to present yourself as the gatekeeper to the philosophy, but Ron Paul is far more conservative in the Barry Goldwater way than anything Sarah Palin presents. So the Republicans need to stop having these minifeuds among themselves, and come up with ways to be relevant. Be it the National Council for a New America listening tour or Distinguished Lecturer events or writing op-eds and columns for National Review, all these actions are meaningful and conducted to foster positive outcomes. If they fail, they fail. The fact that they try is far more productive than sitting in a chair, being critical, and bloviating about how easy it would be to win the Presidency if you just had a What Would Reagan Do Magic 8-ball.

Doomed Reagan cut taxes. Reagan spent the commies into bankruptcy. Reagan revitalized America and gave it a reason to feel good about itself again by talking positive about our values and our need to feel some patriotism about ourselves. Get over it....Reagan is gone. FDR is gone. Kennedy is gone. Taxes under Reagan were exorbitantly HIGH. He lowered them. The economy responded. The USSR was the main worldwide threat to the world. They were going broke. Reagan spent a lot of money we didnt have and the USSR followed suit. We won. They lost. Get over it. The USA had spent roughly 1965-1980 suffering one blow to her prestige after another. Vietnam. Richard Nixon. Watergate. Jimmy Carter. America finally had grown weary of America bashing. Reagan's message was vibrant and alive. He instilled a sense of "America don't suck anymore" into the average American. That is all past. Taxes are now very low. You CANT cut them any lower. GOP get over it. If you cannot come up with some new ideas to move forward then you deserve to be a pathetic party of the minority. AFter 8 years of hate calling, America sucks doldrums Obama came along with a positive message and he is popular. Time to stop going after Obama and start coming up with a new strategy. Im not sure the GOP will ever get back into power with their lower taxes thing until the democrats have been in power long enough to raise taxes back up and get the economy stagnant again. Limbaugh and company would be well served to take the high ground. The name calling they started has gotten old. Limbaugh is a loser. He just doesnt realize the game is over yet.

iBrock I don't know how I forgot to include this in my early comment, but Rush is either uninformed or conveniently exempting knowledge from his audience that Sarah Palin is "out there" too with machiavellian presidential aspirations by way of her inclusion in the Natinoal Council for a New America conversation circuit. She was asked, like she usually is in party events, to appear---she could not, but she will soon. She did this earlier too. I forget what it was for, but Mitt Romney ended up keynoting whatever it was she backed out of that time too. So, if Rush is an honest guy, he'll today clear up his kneejerk misfires from yesterday. If not, then he's content to assume people won't notice that Sarah Palin is also involved in the National Council for a New America.

Rubus Romney and the other Rino's have to stop with Palin bashing. They completely ignore the president’s 11th commandment. As long as Mitt and other Rino's keeps dissing Gov. Palin, he continues to fall in my estimation. Palin has never said one negative thing about Romney. It has been a one way street so far .

CStanley Michael, I agreed with iBrock's comment too, but not only are we powerless as individuals to 'tell' Limbaugh that message, it's also always seen as a challenge to him when he's criticized (even if there was someone with a big enough platform from which to launch that kind of challenge to him.) The plain fact is that he won't stop doing this because he's unable to separate what is good for him as a radio talk show host from what is good for the party and the country. In his mind, they're all completely the same, even though that's not at all true right now. The best strategy then is to stop allowing the Democrats, the MSM, and the 'moderate' blogosphere from making the narrative all about Limbaugh. Ignore him, let him do his thing and keep the base fired up, and focus on issues. Conservatism needs to be articulated to voters as a clear alternative to current policies. This is particularly true for the younger generation (whose only experience whatsoever with the Democratic party was Bill Clinton's presidency, a time which was prosperous and when moderate Democrats prevailed. We need to take control of the story here and ignore the distractions that some people want us to focus on. It's not about personalities, it's about ideas.

Doomed We need to take control of the story here and ignore the distractions that some people want us to focus on. It’s not about personalities, it’s about ideas. But what ideas do the GOP have that are worth articulating? I must confess that I have been a republican/libertarian for 30 years and I have no idea what ideas the GOP has that have any teeth or are not met with loud laughs. I don't mean this to bash Republicans but they really seem to have no ideas that resonate any longer in the throes of a nation that is enamored with cell phones, Ipods, internet and me, me, me self absorption.

CStanley What you're describing though is the cultural illiteracy and apathy about political ideas, Doomed, not a lack of ideas among conservatives. Certainly it's a problem, to try to figure out better communication strategies- but part of that will start to resolve only when people start to see the failure of the Democratic policies and the disingenuousness of that party's promises of reform.

iBrock Thank you, MVDG. You and I mentioned before, and Rubus just mentioned it again (only in a way that suggests he either missed our discussion about it or he disagrees), that we need to protect our own better. Reagan's 11th Commandment about not publicly saying anything bad about another Republican. You are right that Democrats are far better at getting each others backs than we are. In fact, they are thick as thieves in terms of covering up for each other. The only case I can think of when they did not circle the wagons was for Rod Blagojevich. That, I think, is an instance where they had to sacrifice someone in order to protect their higher-ups. That is the only time you will see Democrats in the public forum trashing one of their own. Now, they do it incessantly so that it ultimately backfires, but as the cylce spins around and around, the broken clock is right twice a day. What we can do to make sure the clock runs and is right most of the time is to do things to spread influence like we do here, or in other blogs, and among friends and at the local party levels I suppose. Rush is going to do what is best for Rush. Now, why he thinks it's best for him to defend with such emotion a low quality candidate of questionable intelligence is, I think, just a sign that he is on his B game when it comes time to navigate for his own party. He is at his best, on his A game when he's dissecting Democrats' true motives. I doubt Rush will clarify or apologize for wrongly indicting Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush for being Palin-haters since he simply doesn't admit when he's been wrong. I don't think there's any point in challenging Limbaugh in any open way since he only interacts in a closed and controlled forum. All we can do in terms of him is to highlight his true value in terms of unmasking Democrat motives and methods, and then otherwise shrug off his attempts to be an ace like Karl Rove. Rove laps Limbaugh at political chess and so after seeing Rove serve as a talking head after a couple weeks, it's like, what the hell is Limbaugh think he's doing trying to kick people out of the bloody party? Karl Rove indicated that most wanted, after McCain accidentally won the nomination, it to be a McCain-Romney ticket. Most establishment republicans favored Mitt. That's despite him being from a small state, a little known one term governor who had a life outside of politics for all but that one term, and going up against internationl names like Rudy and John McCain. And the celebrity of Fred Thompson. We had Mike Huckabee also doing great for himself, in terms of bang for buck. In essence, Romney did very well given that on the social right there was Mike and Fred syphoning votes that otherwise would go to Romney 8 to 1 over either McCain or Rudy (who himself sandbagged his candidacy to the aid of McCain). So Mitt was virtually trying to appeal to the full spectrum of the typical republican voter, and he was flanked from a cast of characters who each were lifelong politicians. Mitt is the only name from that roster who is relevant today and going forward, and that's why the Palin die-hards are doing things like creating fake Moderates 4 Mitt websites. Palin, in a way, is right now no more than a female Huckabee. A culture warrior first and last and nothing more. Culture warriors do not win elections; they may trounce in a region, but that will be all. Reagan was no culture warrior. He exuded the cultural good, he persuaded its spread, he compelled us all to be better. Reagan was a reader, a quiet intellectual, a true, pragmatic idealist; not a demagogue dyed in unrealistic, static ideology. Palin may prove her critics wrong, but if she's going to it will be because she improves vastly, not because anyone has branded her in some unfair light and she got her real self out over time. I apologize for my own hypocritical violation of Reagan's 11th Commandment in characterizing Sarah Palin in any negative light. In order for us to heal the seemingly apparent divide between Culturalists and, I dunno, Moderates I guess is what we who like Romney are called....we need to accept that some of us like Republicans for any number of reasons that can be different from others. It's a big country and there's no rational mind that would expect a Republican in Alabama to be the same breed as a Republican in Maryland or Oregon. Accepting the differences, arguing via persuasion not ridicule is what we need to do with each other. You know, in terms of arriving at what can win elections. I suppose it's a good sign that things are moving in the right, more civil direction to see so many bringing up the violation of the 11th Commandment.

c3 The equation: Increased listenership (Rush's) is inversely proportional to decreased votes (for the Republican Party) PS (you can fit in Hannity and O-reilly into that equation also) At some point the Republican party will need to deal with the radio and TV personalities who gain listener and viewers while at the same time turning off some Republicans and many independents to the brand.

me Americans are tired of these same ole politicians, they RAN, they LOST NOW GET OUT OF THE WAY and LET PALIN TAKE BACK AMERICA before it's too late.

Judi M. It's my opinion that the Republican party will make no comeback whatsoever until their motive changes from "how do we get back into power" to "how do we truly serve the people of this country".

Iben The ranting of a fool!

Bob Rush is an idiot. As a Republican, I ask, did Rush Limbaugh just call Sarah Palin articulate? The woman who was made fun of all over the world for screwing up her interviews and for lack of intelligence? Is he serious? I love Sarah Palin, but she's not the brightest bulb in the political scene, she's inexperienced, new, and can't think on her feet. Obama and others have not tripped up as much in their interviews. Even if we know for sure how stupid and idiotic Obama is, he's been able to think on his feet. Biden is another story, him and Palin make a good dumb couple.

Sturm Howser @iBrock

I like Rush and listen to some of his show daily,

I'd like to get back the 30-seconds of my life I wasted by reading your post up to the point where you admitted the above.

Interested

Judi M. : It’s my opinion that the Republican party will make no comeback whatsoever until their motive changes from “how do we get back into power” to “how do we truly serve the people of this country”.

This is politics. The Dem's proved over the past two election cycles that serving society is not needed. it's - who can best throw paint on the other guy

Doomed The democrats are defining the debate because the GOP was in charge for 6 years and then the last 2 years they made the debate all about Bush and what went on the last 2 years. They realize a winning formula and so they have continued this even today. Its not about THEIR agenda. Its about what Bush and the GOP did the last 8 years. It's about torture trials and abuses of power by the former administration. If you bring up a 1.7 trillion dollar deficit they shout about Bush and Torture and a war that we were lied too about. Unless and Until the Democrats have a track record of being in charge then there is little way to change the debate. Change the topic and let your ideas come out as true alternatives. That is why in this very thread I asked about what are the ideas of the GOP and no one even dared to say a thing. Because the GOP really doesnt have any ideas. They have so locked themselves into such a narrow definition that there is nothing in the world that is popular with the people. Strong defense?.......people hate the war right now. Cut taxes?...........States are going bankrupt and we have had deficits for years. Personal Responsibility?.....Try out Ms. Prejean for their reaction. States rights?.......Has never been a popular idea among the voting public especially when their states are going bankrupt and cant afford services. Drill more oil?......right. This is popular when gasoline is 4 bucks a gallon but its now 2 bucks a gallon and people will soon be buying 3mpg SUVS and pick ups again. ANTI ABORTION...ANTI GAY MARRIAGE.......These are divisive not inclusive. The GOP has not a leg to stand on. Nothing they have as foundations of their party has anything but wobbly, tired old legs. The champions of big business are seen as being responsible for the business situation we have in America today. Those who are honest enough know it took both parties to tango on this but hey..the GOP was in charge most of that time.....its their fault. So in conclusion. The GOP needs new ideas. Fresh Ideas and unfortunately CONSERVATIVE means they are slow to change and so it just might take them 20 years to find those new ideas. The problem is. Can we survive 20 years of a Fascist rule by the Democrats who are willing to lock the GOP out of committees, smear private citizens for simply stating their beliefs while the GOP finds its legs and the American public grows tired? Im dubious.

JD As a Republican... Rush Limbaugh is the problem with the Republican Party today. I was fine with his rantings up until the 2006 Elections but after three years of mindless pathetic ranting I can't help but find myself at increasing odds with popularity. His obstinate refusal to accept reality is an absolute joke. He is incapable of realizing that the type of conservative he is speaking to doesn't exist, and maybe never existed. This is not the time for the Republican Party to be listening to an obtuse jackass who hides behind a microphone and a tower. Without the Limbaugh's the Palin's and the Huckabee's out there, the Republican Party would be in great shape right now. Their radical social-activist wing is strangling this party, not to mention the constant barrage of politically damning attacks Limbaugh has spewed out against Bush and Romney etc. He is the Jean-Paul Marat of the Republican party and it's time we get rid of him and his little cronies and get the real work done. James Carville says that Democrats will rule Washington for 40 years. Rush seems to be working his damnedest to make sure that happens.

Deo Man, they are SO isolating themselves...shooting themselves in the foot... Palin would get 20 percent of the votes, TOPS...there is no way...do the math. WHO HAS STACKED IT AGAINST HER? The Republicans. The Dems aren´t voting for Palin. PERIOD. Its not that they are afraid of Sarah, they are simpley laughing too hard at the shenanigans.

iBrock Sturm, had you read further you'd have an actual understanding of what I was saying, which probably you agree with. JD and Deo, it's true that more and more Republicans I know want to be more the party of leave me alone and stop taking my money, not God shall this or that. It's great to have the moral high ground, and of course the votes of the moral majority, but we cannot have culture warriors like Huckabee and Palin running the show. They play roles. Valuable roles. Running back, wide receiver, nose tackle...whatever, but not QB. It's just not the right personality, the right temperament for the job. Obama's got the right disposition for it, and certaily the presentation skills. Couple that with 8 years of Republican rule, national drain over wars, and a shrinking economy was all it took to push him over the top. McCain only got the nod b/c of fluke fumble in the GOP nomination process that happened to bounce oddly into his lap, back at the 10 yard line. Had he picked Romney, I probably would've bothered to vote, figuring it would've made a sensible-enough ticket: McCain could give Romney free license to craft are economic and domestic agenda while Little John would then be free to pursue his lifelong passion of foreign policy. But no, he picked Palin in what served as either a desperation Hail Mary, a political stunt if you will, or spite over not liking Mitt b/c of his contrast ads in the primary that pointed out the many errors in McCain's record. Or all of the above. No matter b/c McCain himself is not presidential, and he picked a runningmate who isn't either; just like Gore/Lieberman in 2000. Furthermore, he picked the one person he could find who happened to undermine and discredit the entire argument he was making against Obama--that he was inexperienced. So McCain built his campaign on vote for me b/c the other guy is a newbie, yet told us that if he goes down in his 70s like his dad and grandfather did before him, that we'd be better off with someone with even less experience than Obama, Sarah Palin, not to mention that we could've had Mitt Romney on-deck. You gotta be kidding me. That is the sort of either political stuntsmanship or bad decision-making we'd witness President McCain make alongside his war-hawk but otherwise Democrat Lite agenda, and so I saw fit not to toe the partyline at the ballot box last year. Now we can truly reset ourselves since we've flushed out the bad hands and hit bottom. Rush is the best at picking apart Democrats. He should stick to that since that's where he's most valuable. I can't listen to him when he tries to play doctor in fixing the Republican party b/c his solution is to just use a What Would Reagan Do Magic 8 Ball. I don't want to kick him out of the party, nor Palin and the Huck (even). Rush needs to be smarter to stay on the sidelines between the supposed heads of the different wings of our party. Hell, Rush never "picks" (endorses) anyone in the primary b/c he says that is not what he's about. Well, why is it OK in his book to do it every other day except for that one? He talks about Big Tent. Well, we need Romney types and we need Palin types. I personally don't think we're doing much damage or good going over this anymore. I think the next primary will flush out the notion that a cultural champion with little expertise and composure could come close to winning the nomination. So this does it for me engaging in intraparty squabbles.

Scott Thomas @Bob Bob - You are so right about how Obama thinks on his feet and doesn't get tripped up in interviews. On the other hand, poor Gov. Palin: thinks there are 57 states, wishes Mexicans "Happy Cuatro de Cinco," thinks the national language of Austria is Austrian, makes fun of the Special Olympics, views her grandmother as a "typical white person," during the campaign repeatedly didn't seem to know what city she was in, thinks Nancy Reagan held seances in the White House, is concerned about the "rise of privacy" off the coast of Somolia, bows to Saudi dictators and then tries to deny what the video shows so clearly, gave the PM of Great Britain a set of DVDs which, if not bad enough, couldn't even be viewed outside this region, thanked John McCain for not talking about "my Muslim faith," is glad to have the support of "thoughtful thinkers," etc. Yep - old Sarah Palin is lucky you don't hold her to the exacting standard you apply to Obama. Now - about Joe Biden . . .

Scott Thomas @iBrock Why do you conceivably conclude that Gov. Palin is a "culture warrior"? I know there are some on the right that want her to be and many on the left who are certain she is but I think its time to give Gov. Palin a break from the projection of her friends and foes.

iBrock You're absolutely correct, Scott, that she needs to break from the projections of her friends and foes. I said earlier that if she's going to attain national prominence it will be because she does that and improves her image vastly. I'm not a fan simply because I don't think she has what it takes to win the Presidency. I don't think she has what it takes because, from what I've seen of her, she seems to be of questionable knowledge when topics devolve into levels more technical than opinion and philosophy.

Scott Thomas iBrock - I would suggest that Gov. Palin has already attained national prominence and, for all her alleged shortcomings, did so in the (for a woman - hell, for men too) non-traditional manner, e.g., not by marriage or birth. As to your concerns for her relative technical and philosophical abilites, I'll leave yor opinions to you and only note that I suspect what you and I are looking for/expecting from a chief executive are two different things.

iBrock That's fine, other than you should understand that I don't have concerns over either her philosophy or opinions, but over policy/decision-making abilities. All I ask of a President is that he or she be pragmatic, critical thinkers of good character and good judgement to deal with the unexpected when it arises. The rest of the task really boils down to optimizing efficiency of the bureaucracy, which of course is an oxymoron, but therein lies the problem. I remain impressed with Romney's records of turning around broken entities both public and private, and I think the nation would benefit from his Presidency and his character.

Doomed I remain impressed with Romney’s records of turning around broken entities both public and private, and I think the nation would benefit from his Presidency and his character. Gentle persuasion Ibrock? Van der Galien’s absolutely correct to point out that Limbaugh and the Palin die-hards feel entitled to violate Reagan rules when it suits them to trash fellow Republicans. Yours is nothing more then a long winded circular path to dishing Palin and endorsing Romney. I suppose something can be said for gentle persuasion but still in the end the parties problems are about more then just Palin, Limbaugh, Romney or McCain. The problem with this party is it has no IDEAS. That includes Palin and Romney.

iBrock And if you care to be fair, Doomed, I apologized for my hypocritical violation of the rule as well and have always been a Romney supporer. It's not a problem of lacking ideas; that's just something someone with nothing true to debate or offer has to say--like calling someone a flip-flopper.

David Kessler Palin/Rush '012. Conviction. Accuracy. Consistency. Conservative. Pro-Life. God-fearing true leadership. What America needs. Not socialism. Thanks.

Susan God bless the Republican party! Men and Women convinced against THEIR will are of the same opinion still. We all could use a BIG dose of humility. No one is listening to anyone but themselves. We gravitate to what we want to hear not what we need to hear. If we would listen to learn, we might get some where. There is some good stuff out there, but our habits are holding us back from learning wisdom from the knowledge we have gathered. Knowledge is of know worth without some wisdom to direct it.

MarkD Sarah Palin is a flat worlder. She's one of these uneducated morons who thinks that man roamed the planet with dinosaurs and the earth is only 6,000 years old. If that's what it means to be republican they can kiss all future elections goodbye.

Jason Arvak Well, fortunately for Republicans, lies, exaggerations, and distortions spread by their political enemies are NOT in fact "what it means to be republican" [sic]. I also want to point out how much I admire the grammar and punctuation displayed by the self-described educated superiors to the Republicans. Normally, I wouldn't mention anything like that on a blog, but when you prance around passing judgment on other people's leve of education, your own ability to display mastery of the language seems kind of relevant.

iBrock ROFL

Scott Thomas Boy - that MarkD is sharp and persuasive. I repeat something I wrote in comments elsewhere - Gov. Palin's friends and foes should make a list of everything they think they know about her with absolute certitude and then assume that at least 85% of it is wrong.

Joel Hey MarkD - it's 4,004 years ago at 9 a.m. when the world was created, according to an old Anglican divine in the 18th century and that was picked up by the following Christian fundamentalists in the 19th century. If Gov. Palin is to prove successful on the national stage she needs to first demonstrate her ability to be an effective executive of a state. Right now she is having serious problems in Alaska as her popularity there has slid and the legislative agenda has been very weak in face of the issues Alaskans are facing - like rural folks paying $2,000 to $3,000 per year for energy costs.