joewwxman Maybe the girl wasn't really nine years old. Maybe by claiming she was 9, it made getting the abortion easier? Might sound far fetched but stranger things have happened. Still i would agree that the church is being very heavy handed here. I'm not pro choice by any means but if its a 9 year old girl, clearly her life may have been at risk. Reasonable pro life people i think would agree with me. Sadly as per both sides of this issue, reasonable people with common sense are never heard from in this debate.

CStanley Or maybe killing unborn babies isn't the way to solve the problem of a heinous incestuous father, upon whom the blame for this situation should be centered.

vicky The girl wasn't excommunicated. Her mother and doctors were. Perhaps a remedial lesson in reading comprehension is in order? And yes, where is the blame on the disgusting man who raped this girl? If he is Catholic he should be excommunicated also.

EWinters Oh, by the way, she was pregnant with twins, I read somewhere. Twins are almost always born too early -- now, can you imagine how early a nine-year-old would have given birth? All three would have died. Guarantee it. A fetus can't develop properly inside of a nine-year-old girl, let alone two fetuses fighting for the same nutrients in a tiny womb. So, the Church thought the best decision would be for ALL THREE to die -- the girl and the twins -- rather than ensuring the survival of the one life that was guaranteed to survive, if they terminated the pregnancy. The doctors made the right choice here. It was a hard one, but the only reasonable one.

Mike I agree with almost everyone commenting so far that the position of the Catholic church on this is wrong, but I'm also a bit puzzled why it outrages us so much. Since I am not a Catholic, why should I care so much about who the requirements that Catholic church places on their members? Are we denying them some basic human rights by saying their actions cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic church? I'm sure there are religions that I would not be welcome in either, and that doesn't bother me. The only caveat to the above is that by excommunicating them, they are also somewhat subject to be socially ostracized. Having lived in a Central American country for a few months, I have seen how influential the church is in the society, but it is also true that there are many non-Catholics and non-religious even if the areas dominated by Catholicism. Anyway, maybe I'm just callous, but I don't get the outrage (other than the outrage directed at the step-father, of course). (As a side note: The article doesn't mention anything about the step-father, so I would refrain from passing judgment on the church for not excommunicating the father. We don't even know that he was Catholic, and if he was we don't know that he was not also excommunicated.)

Jason, Managing Editor I am getting tired of deleting comments on this thread that are anti-Catholic bigotry. If commenters cannot control themselves enough to express disagreement without crossing the line into sweeping religious bigotry, then this thread will be closed and the commenters banned.

C Stanley MM: I missed your comment/question earlier and will try to address it. Quite honestly, I don't trust the reporting of all of the facts to be accurate enough to know what I think is right in this case. Whenever there's an extreme case it becomes fodder for those who wish to prove a point. If I accept the facts as they are being reported, I do not necessarily agree with the Church's decisions in this case. I do think there could potentially be a threat to the girl's life, and I also just read that the stepfather is indeed Catholic and yet will not be excommunicated. The selectivity of applying excommunication like that does not strike me as correct. If I felt that my duty as a Catholic was to judge other individuals, then it would be incumbent on me to give this more thought. However, that is very much not the case; the priests and bishops perform their own duties in making those decisions in a manner to provide pastoral guidance to those in moral peril. They certainly do that imperfectly (as do all humans) and my duty is to pray for them, as well as for all of the other individuals involved here. I do know that the decision to excommunicate often centers around the scandal of the act (which has a different meaning than the secular meaning of that word, as certainly in the ordinary sense that stepfather's actions were scandalous.) But in the Church's sense of scandal, there's a particular moral peril involved in that condoning an act might lead others to sin (failing to excommunicate the rapist in this case will not lead other people to rape, for instance.) Yet I'm not confident that this should be the distinction in a case like this. My main point was simply that the outrage should be focused on the person who committed the heinous act, not on the Church's decisions about how to guide its flock. There is clearly one person here who inflicted harm on another person, and whose actions are directly responsible for this girl's horrible situation. And just an aside about the general situation of counsel toward carrying a pregnancy even in the case of rape or incest (leaving aside the specifics of this case and whether or not the girl's life was in danger); there are anecdotes from girls and women who've endured a pregnancy under those situations who report that giving life a chance helped them to heal from the violent situation better than they believe they would have if they had aborted. It may seem hard to believe that terminating such a pregnancy might not be the best option psychologically for a girl/young woman in that situation, but those who assume that abortion is the only option are ignoring should at least realize that other people do take seriously the termination of a fetal life and could suffer even more harm from the act of violence that can compound a rape instead of helping to erase the effects of it.

C Stanley Oh, and at the risk of being one of those people who uses an extreme case like this to make a point, I do wish to add one more thing. Prochoice activists who speak out against the Catholic Church often frame the issue as a form of misogyny, as though the failure to permit abortion is itself a type of violence against women. However, in cases of rape and incest, when abortion is freely permitted there is a serious risk of covering up those crimes. And so, I find myself using this case to point out- would we have even known about the crimes of this stepfather if abortion was not opposed by the Church or society at all? There are reports coming out in various cities in the US, for instance, where Planned Parenthood clinics deliberately violate reporting laws and encourage young girls to have abortions secretly without reporting that the fathers are older. That is far more misogynistic than the opposition to abortion is, IMO, because it enables the perpetrators of abusive sexual relationships to continue to rape and/or coerce young girls into being something like sexual servants.

Charley D Dear C Stanley, I do believe that you don't truly understand the whole situation here. A 9 year old girl is not a young woman, it is a child. I read many reports from many websites about this case and all of them agrees that the girl's body would not have been able to carry the children to birth. She was only 70 pounds and still, 9 years old. It may seem fairly easy to state your opinion about a remote situation from another country but you also have to put yourself in that situation, would you let your 9 year old daughter take a 99% risk of dying to carry a couple of twins to birth? And you also have to remember that she got pregnant by being raped by her step father, a grown man. As you've probably guessed, I am pro choice but I do respect the pro life opinion. I wrote this with a friend that shares your opinion as far as womans and not children are concerned. And we both believe that in this situation, there is no way that for the well being of all three children, an attemp at giving birth would have been the best solution. So in this situation we have two death instead of three. Isn't what pro life is about, trying to give as many people as possible a chance to live? All we can wish for is that the child will get the support that she needs and that the father will pay for his act. And that's what the catholic church should help her receive rather than excommunicate her. Charley

Charley D And sorry if I made mistakes in my text, English is not my first language.

CStanley Charley, you are attributing opinions to me that are not correct. Perhaps you missed this paragraph above:| If I accept the facts as they are being reported, I do not necessarily agree with the Church’s decisions in this case. I do think there could potentially be a threat to the girl’s life, and I also just read that the stepfather is indeed Catholic and yet will not be excommunicated. The selectivity of applying excommunication like that does not strike me as correct.

Elif Christine, I would agree with you about the psychological aspect of an abortion that the pregnant woman could well end up worse by taking the life of a baby instead of recovering quickly from the trauma she had been through due to the rape and that giving birth to a baby could help the woman heal a lot quicker than she would otherwise, if we were talking about an older person who did not carry high risk of ending up dead while giving birth to the twins. However we are talking about a 9 year old here (if that is really her age) and although this is nothing but my humble opinion, I do not think she is at an age where she can apreciate the beauty of giving birth to a baby especially when she will need to take care of that child all through her youth while seeing her friends actually living their lives (if she does not end up dead while giving birth to the twins of course). Then again, I may be wrong and motherhood may be something beyond age. It is hard to tell when you are not yourself a mother. I am pro-life but I do not see a fine line between being pro-life or pro-choice. Yes I agree, abortion debates bring the real criminals to the surface who would otherwise be encouraged to keep on doing what they are doing but when all three lives are at stake, I agree with Charley D that we should save as many even if it means I become pro-choice with that specific case. I do not know much about excommunication and as you may already know I am not a Christian myself but still I would much appreciate if someone could explain to me why the abortion in this particular case requires excommunication and raping a 9 year old from family does not. I understand that taking the life of a baby on purpose results in excommunication but isn't this case a little bit different? Ofcourse the Church should not have any flexibility when it comes to matters of morality or decency but I can hardly see this case as taking the lives of twins on purpose when all aspects of the issue are concerned.

CStanley OK, I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm done. People can either read what I've actually stated about my personal opinion or they can continue to misrepresent it, but I'm not going to keep coming back to say the same thing over and over. I PERSONALLY believe that if a woman's life is in danger from a pregnancy then there is no sin or scandal involved in the act of abortion- it is self defense in those rare cases. If the facts are being reported accurately and the doctors made a correct medical judgment that this girl's life was in danger, then I disagree with the Church's decision in this case. I don't know how to make myself more clear than that. Bishops are human and make mistakes and I believe this may be an example of that, but it is up to God's judgment, not mine, to determine that.

Elif OK Christine, sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote above but I thought I was making reference to what you wrote up there. Yes you could not make yourself more clear than this with your last comment, I agree.

CStanley OK, we're good, Elif.

Val Just to clarify Church teaching, rape and adultery are classified as mortal sins, and generally goes without saying that someone who's committed those should not present himself to receive Holy Communion. He is, in effect, excommunicated by his actions. The Church may have been compelled to pronounce a more formal excommunication for those who were involved in procuring/forcing (nobody ever said if the girl wanted an abortion) the abortion because of confusion in the media over Church teaching on abortion. (Thanks loads, Pelosi and Biden!)

Dee I just heard about this story last night on the radio. The little 9-year-old wasn't raped her actual father, it was her step-father. And she is pregnant with twins. I think that the church was being way 2 hard on this little girl.

Ashley 9 years ago in my religion class at catholic school our priest informed us that the church is anti-abortion, BUT they make allowances for three situations RAPE, INCEST, and DANGER to MOTHER or CHILD. Doesn't she fall under all three of those situations or has the church changed its views on the subject.

C Stanley I assume the editors will catch this threatening and hate filled comment and delete it, but until then I'll just 'wax' on how in the world someone can wish harm on another person simply because that person holds a differing opinion. Where does that kind of hatred come from?

Claudia, Assistant Editor I might not have seen it if you hadn't commented C. Stanley. Deleted and user banned. Next time that happens email one of us if you don't see it removed inmediately. Wouldn't want it to fall through the cracks.

C Stanley Thanks Claudia. I was going to email if you guys didn't catch it soon but figured my comment would probably bring it to someone's attention. And I actually did want to comment on how mindboggling it is that anyone can think that way.

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