nevber Michael, I have a big problem with generalizing people into little boxes. Blaming others for ones misfortune is very much part of human nature, no matter what nationality one comes from. However, I also understand your point about the German culture reverting to "racist" thinking every time something goes wrong in their country. But this horrible disease eating away humanity is prevalent every where. Just reading some of the comments in your blog or reading daily news tells me, we humans have not evolved all that much. We all like to think, our culture is the best and we are very different from others. But in reality, we are all alike! I think humanity is a big mistake of the universe. With global warming, and many many horrible wars to come a head of us, our future is very bleak... 

Lucrèce Most of us basically believe that what happened in World War II was not an ‘accident,’ but a logical result of Germany’s intolerant and militaristic culture. "How do we write history? Hitler disliked Prussia and Prussia disliked Hitler. A little reflection would have shown that Nazism was inconsistent with the values of civilization dear to Frederick II. Hitler had wanted to crush the Prussian identity, as had to do it after him, Stalin. Together, they destroyed it, finally. (Comment écrit-on l’histoire ? Hitler n’aimait pas la Prusse et la Prusse n’aimait pas Hitler. Un peu de réflexion aurait montré que le nazisme démentait les valeurs de civilisation chères à Frédéric II. Hitler avait voulu broyer l’identité prussienne, comme devait le faire, après lui, Staline. À eux deux, ils finirent pas en avoir raison.)" François Mitterrand, De l'Allemagne, de la France ("About Germany, About France"), Paris, Odile Jacob, 2001, p. 22 (1re éd., 1996). The Nazi Party has never received more than a third of the vote in free elections. Between 1933 et 1939, 225 000 Anti-Nazis were sentenced to prison. Around one million were locked in concentration camp. Between the 30 January 1933 and the Spring 1936, 1 359 other opponents were killed by SS, SA, and other criminals. According to the Gestapo, around 1935-1936, there were 5 708 centers of illegal document's edition in Germany. Between 1933 and 1945, almost 30 000 German citizens were sentenced to death and executed for political activities against Nazism. During this period, 89 German deputies were killed, 77 exiled, 99 incarcerated. About the German Resistance: Günther Weisenborn, Der lautlose Aufstand ("The Silent Revolt"), Rowohlt Verlag, 1962 (first edition, 1953).

Lucrèce Nearly 40 000 Dutch volunteers had joined the ranks of the Waffen SS during the Second World War: http://www.fenetreeurope.com/php/page.php?section=actu&id=10944 This figure is a record for Western Europe. Is it the logical result of a Dutch intolerant and militaristic culture?

Lucrèce You are committing a mistake: Germany is one of the few EU countries where extreme right is structurally weak. The NPD has not the results of the results of the Vlaams Belang (Dutch-speaking Belgium) or of the Lega Nord (Italia).

Joerg - Atlantic Review Borrelpraat http://atlanticreview.org/archives/1091-Germanys-Intolerant-and-Militaristic-Culture.html#c14463

Fred Dear me. So you want to sit in judgement of some 80 million people for crimes comitted by (some) of their grandfathers while accusing them of racism and natural militarism. Without any apparent sense for the irony, too. Well that takes a healthy dose of chupaz or an even healthier one of pure stupidity, paired with ... what do you call it again, when you make blanket judgements of humans by random criteria like their place of birth? Ohhh right now I remember: xenophobia, prejudice and discrimination. With a mindset like that you would feel right at home at the NPD.

Interested Part of me is not too terribly surprised that a nationalistic party would gain strength in the light of EU and the eroding national sense that inevitably brings along with it.

Lucrèce Germans have a historical tendency to consider themselves better than anything else, and fit to rule the world. This tendency is no more since 1945, even in the extreme right.And do you think that Philipp II, Napoleon or the British imperialists of the nineteenth century did not seek to dominate the world? Do you think that some neocon think-thanks, especially the Project for a New American Century, have no imperialist projects? "Deutschland über alles" and all that. "Deutschland über alles" is not "Deutschland über allem"! If you do not know that, it is serious. All the more so because they refuse to learn the lessons from World War II; instead of taking full responsibility they behave as if it was ‘an accident,’ probably because thinking that makes their own guilt less. It is completely untrue. What else to say? Sorry, mister van der Galiën, I wanted not to discuss with you the topics that angry, but I am almost as much pro-German than pro-Turkish; and I do not understand this narrow view with someone like you.

Lucrèce but my experience with Germans and my reading on German history and culture (quite exhaustive if I may say so) has led me to the conclusions in the article What did you read about the Aufklärung, about the German liberalism, the German social-democracy, the German Resistance, the German pacifism? Visit Germany once, and see how they treat foreigners there. It’s not a pleasant country for foreigners. Especially not for Turks these days, by the way. Do you think really that France, Italy, Netherland or Spain, for example, are more pleasant countries for foreigners? And why many Turks asked the German nationality since 2000?

Lucrèce Fred; um. "Some"? Yes, SOME! Again: "How do we write history? Hitler disliked Prussia and Prussia disliked Hitler. A little reflection would have shown that Nazism was inconsistent with the values of civilization dear to Frederick II. Hitler had wanted to crush the Prussian identity, as had to do it after him, Stalin. Together, they destroyed it, finally. (Comment écrit-on l’histoire ? Hitler n’aimait pas la Prusse et la Prusse n’aimait pas Hitler. Un peu de réflexion aurait montré que le nazisme démentait les valeurs de civilisation chères à Frédéric II. Hitler avait voulu broyer l’identité prussienne, comme devait le faire, après lui, Staline. À eux deux, ils finirent pas en avoir raison.)" François Mitterrand, De l’Allemagne, de la France ("About Germany, About France"), Paris, Odile Jacob, 2001, p. 22 (1re éd., 1996). The Nazi Party has never received more than a third of the vote in free elections. Between 1933 et 1939, 225 000 Anti-Nazis were sentenced to prison. Around one million were locked in concentration camp. Between the 30 January 1933 and the Spring 1936, 1 359 other opponents were killed by SS, SA, and other criminals. According to the Gestapo, around 1935-1936, there were 5 708 centers of illegal document’s edition in Germany. Between 1933 and 1945, almost 30 000 German citizens were sentenced to death and executed for political activities against Nazism. During this period, 89 German deputies were killed, 77 exiled, 99 incarcerated. About the German Resistance: Günther Weisenborn, Der lautlose Aufstand ("The Silent Revolt"), Rowohlt Verlag, 1962 (first edition, 1953).

Aus Mannheim Oh my god, the 80ies are alive: Moffrica and moffrican bashing makes any self-respeting batavian feel oh so noble and superior!

Fred "Fred; um. "Some"? Some? Some?" Yes some. Try to think logically about it (probably not your strongest suit but have a try, it won't actually hurt) apart from all the murdering someone had to do the farming and running the industry and fighting the actual war. But don't stress yourself, maybe they took rotations at it: from 10 to 12 building tractors (or tanks if that makes you happier), from 12 to 13 eating Jewish babies. Let's assume they were all murdering monsters. So it has been some 63 years since the end of the war. Let's assume further Germans start their torturing and murdering somewhat earlier than the rest they are Germans after all, say with 13. So the youngest vlad-the-impaler incarnation is now 76. I really can be assed to look up the percentage of the population of this age or older but let's fix it arbitrarily at 20% that's probably much too high but I wouldn't want to disappoint. So according to you the rest a measly 4 out of 5 will have to share the blame because really they should have known better than to be born in this country there are so many nations full of better people, natural superior like the Dutch( I assume). God it is kind of funny how easy it is to describe you position using those tired old Nazi phrases. By the way do you know who else practiced this liability-by-relation you seem so fond of? Come on, three attempts I'm sure you can guess. Now we could back up a little and try to argue that the guilt of these people consists for a great majority not of actively participating but of suspecting and not rising up in arms against the Nazis. At least then you would have half a leg to stand on. But then again if it's the same standard for everyone around that makes you grandparents just as guilty as any Germans because I can't recall any (armed) uprisings in the Netherlands during the occupation, although the SS was just as busy there. Oh and by the way, if we are assuming some kind of original sin, guilt by association etc I have to say I find it quite convenient to draw the line after which everything is forgiven and forgotten at 1939 because there are centuries filled with wars, slavetrade, imperialism and torture before that in which quite a lot of people got their hands dirty. As for militarism: yes, Germans have a militaristic and intolerant culture. Newsflash Mr van der Gallen you saying (wishing?) so don?t make it so. There are short sighted idiots, that never learnt to think for themselves, almost everywhere, certainly there are some in Germany and at least one in the Netherlands as you so eloquently demonstrate. Germans have a historical tendency to consider themselves better than anything else, and fit to rule the world. If you mean by that the greater tendency to nationalism imperialism and militarism you might have half a point. But you conveniently forget the fact that this phenomenon was hardly limited to Germany: I seem to recall a tiny thing called Dutch Empire. From France's Le Grand Natione and USA's Manifest Destiny to Britannica rules the Waves almost everyone seemed to be of the opinion it was their god given right to show the rest of the world (especially those dirty, smelly brown people but not limited to them) how it was supposed to be done. This is more or less frowned upon only since the end of WW2. One might argue there is indeed an increasing tendency to enforce one's will over people you regard as inferior ( and to exploit their land for whatever raw materials there are) but the culprits are more likely to be found in some conservative Washington think tank than in Berlin. But I disgress, this is another can of worms altogether and not the reason for our little lover's spat here. Which is also why the Germans have instigated quite some wars in Europe, of course, in an attempt to dominate the other peoples living there. "Deutschland über alles" and all that. Dominate other peoples lives - well yes. That?s the whole point of a war ? two sides disagree, they fight, one side wins and says: we will do it my way or? well actually there is no other choice. As to your claim of ?instigating quite some wars? yes there were some as with any other major European power. Germany as a state exists since the end of the Franco-German War of 1870-71, which started because Napoleon III was afraid of being surrounded by German dynasties in Spain and Germany and quite frankly because both sides were spoiling for a fight for inner political reasons. Takes two to tango. WW1 was more or less the a war for resources, colonies, power politics. England was pissed to have a new rival at sea, France was pissed at their resounding defeat of 1871, Russia was pissed because of their lost territories during their war with the Ottoman Empire. Add to that Wilhelm II and his famous subtlety of a sledgehammer and there we are. WW2 I will grant you. The reasons were manifold and complex but I wouldn?t want to bewilder anyone with too any facts. Suffice to say Germans thought it a good idea to elect a certain Austrian corporal and the rest is ? as they say ? history. Summa summarum three wars, two of which are at least shared in responsibility ? quite average for a major player. Still very bloody, mostly a function of progressing technology and scale and in the last one of insanity. I realize that some Germans may not enjoy reading this post, but that does not make the perception I wrote about any less real. And it does also not make the murders committed by German new nazi-members less real either. Nor the homes they burn down; nor the graveyards they destroy. Never would I presume to pretend that Germany is perfect. There are still numerous problems extremism certainly one of them. Of course this is rigorously combated by quite graphic history lessons in school up to and including trying to install a kind of permanent in our children. Personally I find the last point distasteful, yet accurate history lessons are to be supported, including the reasons and consequences of fascism and any other radical ideology. Violent crimes of the extreme right have to reported and investigated with the full rigour of the law. In your shoes I would go easy on the finger pointing, seeing that you have your own problems in this respect from a certain Pim Fortyn on the more moderate edges of the extreme right, who achieved about a third of votes in Rotterdam ? not quite a village ? if memory severs ( after a quick look on your blog I would hazard the guess that you are probably the kind of man who admired Mr. Fortyn so this remark might not have the desired effect but still I thought I should make it) to the Dutch Peoples-Union and the National Alliance and their ilk. Germans have always been intolerant and militaristic, and will always continue to be intolerant and militaristic. All the more so because they refuse to learn the lessons from World War II; instead of taking full responsibility they behave as if it was ?an accident,? probably because thinking that makes their own guilt less. That?s understandable, but it?s not the right course to follow. Ohhh look children: a fool making an allegation. Well here is one for you: All dutch a mentally retarded and prefer sexual congress with sheep. There is of course no connection whatsoever between reality and the aforementioned assertion but no matter. Reality is for pansies anyway, isn?t it? Concerning to the guilt of Germans: In modern law there is a practice of judging people by what they have actually done ? you might have heard of it, it?s quite popular in a lot of states under the rule of law. I eagerly await your prove how a majority of Germans is guilty of some heinous crime. That?s all my opinion of course. You?re free to disagree with it? unlike some people I actually tend to allow people to disagree with me, without getting overly angry. Hmm. Food for thought me thinks. Mr. van der Gallen I invite you to an experiment: step out of your door and insult random people on the street. (Their parents, their sexual preferences, their children whatever, be creative). Report back to me with your findings. Now I'm willing to bet there will a spectrum of reactions from irritated looks to a swift kick in the balls. But pretty much anyone will agree it takes a very special kind of stupidity to wildly insult people and not expect some kind of unfriendly response. Now wait you might say the dastardly fiend didn?t take his own advice didn?t he? Well guilty as charged I repeatedly insulted you by doubting you mental capabilities. This is admittedly not very productive if one tries to have a productive debate. Then again one has to agree with one?s opponent on certain ground rules, there has to be a minimum of respect between parties for a meaningful discussion and quite frankly I have none for you. I have neither your arrogance nor your wilful ignorance so I will make this abundantly clear: I have no quarrel with the Dutch people. Never will I try to impress a seal to people I know nothing about ? that?s your job. I will gladly apologize when (if) you see the error of your ways and extend to everyone the simple courtesy of judging them by their own merits and not by randomly assigned parameters like place of birth (or gender, or religion, or language). Until then: You are not even worth the abrasion of my key board. I ask myself why I took all the trouble to type this monster but sometimes you just have to rage against the merciless ignorance of the universe and hope for fertile ground for your words. I regard this as public service against ignorance and racism probably it is in vain. I hold you in contempt sir. Have a nice life.